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  1. Khun Kao is offline

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    May 2003
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    Posted On:
    8/11/2010 9:35pm


     Style: MuayThai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KneesBldChar View Post
    100% agree with the above. The body tilt is something you don't see very often at all and it's so stupid strong, especially considering it's application to not only straight Muay Thai, but to MMA as well.

    Further, many people think that for clinch to be completely dominant you need full plum. So not true. In fact sadly, I'm begining to prefer one hand behind the head and the other on the off arm as a means of control. Especially at the amateur level where there are no elbows to the face to make putting a hand down to block a knee less appealing. Not to mention when someone fights to get a plum they waste far more energy if you control them at the elbow / bicep. Awesome vids.
    I stopped using the double-neck tie in mid-2004... One hand on neck, one hand on bicep is by far a superior position. And depending on your personal style of fighting, double bicep control is potentially more superior!

    And I totally agree with your statement re: how most people feel you need a strong double-neck tie to have a dominant clinch. I coach my guys the exact opposite. My goal is to coach them to dominate the clinch without ever resorting to the double neck tie.
  2. Neo Sigma is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2010 7:56am


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Khun Kao View Post
    I stopped using the double-neck tie in mid-2004... One hand on neck, one hand on bicep is by far a superior position. And depending on your personal style of fighting, double bicep control is potentially more superior!

    And I totally agree with your statement re: how most people feel you need a strong double-neck tie to have a dominant clinch. I coach my guys the exact opposite. My goal is to coach them to dominate the clinch without ever resorting to the double neck tie.
    My coach's feelings on the matter are pretty similar to yours. Basically he's told us that if the double-neck clinch is there, go ahead and take it, but don't go thinking you're going to be able to swim your arms up and under all the time when you're both wearing gloves. Our most frequently-practiced move from the double tie isn't actually knees. He likes to use it to set up a tossing release to one side into a leg kick. Really nasty when you get the timing down and you can catch them with all their weight on the one leg.
  3. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2010 7:14pm


     Style: MMA, Yoga

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Against someone who doesn't know how to clinch (everyone), the double neck tie is awesome. The only people i can't make my plaything with the double tie in the gym are the professionals and the amateurs with 5+ fights.

    As soon as you introduce elbows arm control becomes much more important than head control, I've been caught really badly with elbows by trying to go for the double tie.
    "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
    Kenny Weldon
  4. MMAMickey is offline
    MMAMickey's Avatar

    POWERRR!

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2010 5:24am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neo Sigma View Post
    I really dig the arm control that I see a lot of Thai guys using, it really opens up so many more possibilities for controlling the clinch. Too many people that I've run into seem to think that you don't have a good clinch if you don't have the classic plum.
    yup. in fact since I started doing greco I finally began to understand that grabbing for the head isn't the only way to control someone.

    clinching in europe is so far below that standard it makes me want to cry.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
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  5. Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/13/2010 9:34am


     Style: 5x5, 5.56mm

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MMAMickey View Post
    clinching in europe is so far below that standard it makes me want to cry.
    Sadly true. I don't know about Europe but England certainly. There's some outstanding clubs and fighters but every club I've trained at or events Ive watched involve plenty of clinching but it's often a war of attrition and isn't even remotely as technical as what's going on in Thailand, not even close.

    I don't understand why, plenty of clubs are run by or have Thai trainers with solid backgrounds or local guys who have trained and fought extensively over there. I've been out of training for a whole though so hopefully there's been a shift.
  6. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2010 12:18pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Awsome vids. Moar plz!

    The clinch work and footwork displayed by Pot, X, and Saenchai were really something to behold.

    It makes me sad that you've got a lot of people outside of Thailand making and producing instructional DVDs on the "secrets" of the Muay Thai Clinch when you've got somebody like Pot coaching in Thailand who really knows the clinch inside and out but receives little recognition.

    What I would really like to see is a clinch instructional DVD made by Pot instead of all of the self proclaimed expert farang videos we have available.
    安氏八极拳学生
  7. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2010 1:49pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kovacs View Post
    I don't understand why, plenty of clubs are run by or have Thai trainers with solid backgrounds or local guys who have trained and fought extensively over there.
    In a word "Judging". Thai Judges award a technical clinch game most western judges don't understand it and don't score it well.
  8. KneesBldChar is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2010 9:47am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One thing that does bother me immensely about clinch scoring is where knees that someone just literally picks up their leg to touch you with score points. That or the knees where they are literally just hitting you with the inside of the thigh. I'm sorry, but unless someone is curling their leg in so that some part of the point of inner knee is making contact, they should not score. Attacks should have the intent to cause damage and harm. If you can take an attack for 45 minutes (exaggeration) without receiving damage it shouldn't score. This isn't point karate.

    Sorry, if the above sounds brutish, but clinch scoring sometimes leads me as a fan to prefer the early K1 rules.
  9. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2010 12:05pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It really depends on what judges you are talking about. Also, throws score way higher than knees and should IMO.
  10. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    8/17/2010 1:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What you're talking about has a lot more to do with work rate than anything else. If two people are basically neutral, then the one that is making more of an attempt to fight than the other it is going to look better (even if that means low damage attacks). Of course if you throw one big solid knee that makes a loud crack and buckles your opponent it's going to score a lot higher than a bunch of taps to the leg. Doing something is just always going to score better than doing nothing.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
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