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  1. Ming Loyalist is offline
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar

    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2010 11:42am

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     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Khun Kao View Post
    It's awesome seeing the difference between Saenchai clinching with Pot and when he clinches with Mister X. Pot (retired) totally dominated him, but Saenchai got the best of Mr. X (current fighter).

    how much much of the domination was due to pot's size advantage? i know that i have seen smaller thais manhandle larger europeans in clinch workouts, but as with everything else, as the skill level is closer size tends to make more of a difference and pot looks to be 2 or more weight classes larger than saenchai.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  2. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2010 11:49am

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     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can see in the video there's not really any muscling going on. The size difference makes a bit of difference in the difficulty in throwing, but basically everything that's going on in the video is pure technique. Proper clinch work doesn't involve much strength.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  3. Khun Kao is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2010 12:02pm


     Style: MuayThai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula View Post
    You can see in the video there's not really any muscling going on. The size difference makes a bit of difference in the difficulty in throwing, but basically everything that's going on in the video is pure technique. Proper clinch work doesn't involve much strength.
    I agree with this assessment.

    The size advantage definitely plays a role, but you have to understand that pound-for-pound, Saenchai is Thailand's best fighter. He is in top-notch fight shape. Pot is an older, retired guy who while bigger, is no longer in top-notch shape. Pot also has a torn ACL.
  4. Khun Kao is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2010 12:13pm


     Style: MuayThai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But for the record, Pot is no slouch.... he fought Buakaw at Lumpinee twice (lost the decision both times, though)
  5. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2010 1:14pm

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     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Khun Kao View Post
    I agree with this assessment.

    The size advantage definitely plays a role, but you have to understand that pound-for-pound, Saenchai is Thailand's best fighter. He is in top-notch fight shape. Pot is an older, retired guy who while bigger, is no longer in top-notch shape. Pot also has a torn ACL.
    thanks khun kao, and kid spatula, i appreciate the answers!
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  6. Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/11/2010 1:42pm


     Style: 5x5, 5.56mm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Khun Kao View Post
    A very good friend and fellow coach, Matt Nielsen, is in Thailand training at Sinbi Muay Thai in Phuket. I've been linking these videos as soon as he uploads them, and he's been uploading them as soon as he steps out of the gym. Training footage doesn't get more current than this!
    It's great to watch and very inspiring. Thanks for sharing!
  7. KneesBldChar is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2010 1:45pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First, awesome videos. It's hard to find good thai style clinch training, especially utilizing arm/shoulder control like Pot is doing in these videos.

    I feel there's a few things being missed in the discussion, and by making these comments I am in no way shape or form downplaying Pot's ability.

    1.) It's not just Pot's weight, but his height which gives him an advantage. Saenchai's shoulder/waist are roughly 4" below Pot's. When trying for plum, etc, reaching down is a huge advantage vs reaching up. Plus Pot can make Saenchai carry his weight by leaning forward. Even if the larger person is out of "fight" shape, a drill like this benefits size inherently because no movement is involved, just clinching.

    2.) Look at the effort output differences between Pot / X and Saenchai. Pot and X throw pretty much a non stop volley of knees where Saenchai seems to choose to barely through any. As good as they might be, I refuse to believe that Saenchai only threw the few knees he did because he was simply unable. Further, watch at energy and tension differences at the point of engagement. Saenchai is more or less hand fighting when they come in vs X and Pot are trying to dominate.

    Again, the videos are awesome and I'm going to watch these several times over to see what I can gleen. However, I think these videos need to be taken as instructional and not some inferential tool to show how Pot is dominating the #1 fighter when Saenchai has nothing to gain from going bananas in such a situation.
  8. Khun Kao is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2010 1:54pm


     Style: MuayThai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KneesBldChar View Post
    First, awesome videos. It's hard to find good thai style clinch training, especially utilizing arm/shoulder control like Pot is doing in these videos.

    I feel there's a few things being missed in the discussion, and by making these comments I am in no way shape or form downplaying Pot's ability.

    1.) It's not just Pot's weight, but his height which gives him an advantage. Saenchai's shoulder/waist are roughly 4" below Pot's. When trying for plum, etc, reaching down is a huge advantage vs reaching up. Plus Pot can make Saenchai carry his weight by leaning forward. Even if the larger person is out of "fight" shape, a drill like this benefits size inherently because no movement is involved, just clinching.

    2.) Look at the effort output differences between Pot / X and Saenchai. Pot and X throw pretty much a non stop volley of knees where Saenchai seems to choose to barely through any. As good as they might be, I refuse to believe that Saenchai only threw the few knees he did because he was simply unable. Further, watch at energy and tension differences at the point of engagement. Saenchai is more or less hand fighting when they come in vs X and Pot are trying to dominate.

    Again, the videos are awesome and I'm going to watch these several times over to see what I can gleen. However, I think these videos need to be taken as instructional and not some inferential tool to show how Pot is dominating the #1 fighter when Saenchai has nothing to gain from going bananas in such a situation.
    I also agree with this statement. I hope no one believes that I am trying to infer that Pot is in any way a better fighter than Saenchai. Pot was most definitely a top-notch fighter in his day and has serious skills, specifically being known for his clinch game.... but comparing him to Saenchai is silly. Pot was a great fighter, but Saenchai is as elite as they come.

    The main testaments to Pots clinch skills are that he dominates guys who much larger than him with the same relative ease, and the fact that Saenchai was as admittedly awed as he was with Pots skills. (see Saenchai's quote at the bottom of post #1)
  9. KneesBldChar is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2010 2:15pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    100% agree with the above. The body tilt is something you don't see very often at all and it's so stupid strong, especially considering it's application to not only straight Muay Thai, but to MMA as well.

    Further, many people think that for clinch to be completely dominant you need full plum. So not true. In fact sadly, I'm begining to prefer one hand behind the head and the other on the off arm as a means of control. Especially at the amateur level where there are no elbows to the face to make putting a hand down to block a knee less appealing. Not to mention when someone fights to get a plum they waste far more energy if you control them at the elbow / bicep. Awesome vids.
  10. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/11/2010 7:23pm


     Style: MMA, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the videos, needed a little motivation. Keep them coming please.
    "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
    Kenny Weldon
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