MuayThai Clinchwork as demonstrated by genuine masters of the craft

**Ming Loyalist** · Posted On: 8/11/2010 11:42am

Originally Posted by Khun Kao

It's awesome seeing the difference between Saenchai clinching with Pot and when he clinches with Mister X. Pot (retired) totally dominated him, but Saenchai got the best of Mr. X (current fighter).

how much much of the domination was due to pot's size advantage? i know that i have seen smaller thais manhandle larger europeans in clinch workouts, but as with everything else, as the skill level is closer size tends to make more of a difference and pot looks to be 2 or more weight classes larger than saenchai.

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 8/11/2010 11:49am

You can see in the video there's not really any muscling going on. The size difference makes a bit of difference in the difficulty in throwing, but basically everything that's going on in the video is pure technique. Proper clinch work doesn't involve much strength.

**Khun Kao** · Posted On: 8/11/2010 12:02pm

Originally Posted by KidSpatula

You can see in the video there's not really any muscling going on. The size difference makes a bit of difference in the difficulty in throwing, but basically everything that's going on in the video is pure technique. Proper clinch work doesn't involve much strength.

I agree with this assessment.

The size advantage definitely plays a role, but you have to understand that pound-for-pound, Saenchai is Thailand's best fighter. He is in top-notch fight shape. Pot is an older, retired guy who while bigger, is no longer in top-notch shape. Pot also has a torn ACL.

**Khun Kao** · Posted On: 8/11/2010 12:13pm

But for the record, Pot is no slouch.... he fought Buakaw at Lumpinee twice (lost the decision both times, though)

**Ming Loyalist** · Posted On: 8/11/2010 1:14pm

Originally Posted by Khun Kao

I agree with this assessment.

The size advantage definitely plays a role, but you have to understand that pound-for-pound, Saenchai is Thailand's best fighter. He is in top-notch fight shape. Pot is an older, retired guy who while bigger, is no longer in top-notch shape. Pot also has a torn ACL.

thanks khun kao, and kid spatula, i appreciate the answers!

**Kovacs** · Posted On: 8/11/2010 1:42pm

Originally Posted by Khun Kao

A very good friend and fellow coach, Matt Nielsen, is in Thailand training at Sinbi Muay Thai in Phuket. I've been linking these videos as soon as he uploads them, and he's been uploading them as soon as he steps out of the gym. Training footage doesn't get more current than this!

It's great to watch and very inspiring. Thanks for sharing!

**KneesBldChar** · Posted On: 8/11/2010 1:45pm

First, awesome videos. It's hard to find good thai style clinch training, especially utilizing arm/shoulder control like Pot is doing in these videos.

I feel there's a few things being missed in the discussion, and by making these comments I am in no way shape or form downplaying Pot's ability.

1.) It's not just Pot's weight, but his height which gives him an advantage. Saenchai's shoulder/waist are roughly 4" below Pot's. When trying for plum, etc, reaching down is a huge advantage vs reaching up. Plus Pot can make Saenchai carry his weight by leaning forward. Even if the larger person is out of "fight" shape, a drill like this benefits size inherently because no movement is involved, just clinching.

2.) Look at the effort output differences between Pot / X and Saenchai. Pot and X throw pretty much a non stop volley of knees where Saenchai seems to choose to barely through any. As good as they might be, I refuse to believe that Saenchai only threw the few knees he did because he was simply unable. Further, watch at energy and tension differences at the point of engagement. Saenchai is more or less hand fighting when they come in vs X and Pot are trying to dominate.

Again, the videos are awesome and I'm going to watch these several times over to see what I can gleen. However, I think these videos need to be taken as instructional and not some inferential tool to show how Pot is dominating the #1 fighter when Saenchai has nothing to gain from going bananas in such a situation.

**Khun Kao** · Posted On: 8/11/2010 1:54pm

Originally Posted by KneesBldChar

First, awesome videos. It's hard to find good thai style clinch training, especially utilizing arm/shoulder control like Pot is doing in these videos.

I feel there's a few things being missed in the discussion, and by making these comments I am in no way shape or form downplaying Pot's ability.

1.) It's not just Pot's weight, but his height which gives him an advantage. Saenchai's shoulder/waist are roughly 4" below Pot's. When trying for plum, etc, reaching down is a huge advantage vs reaching up. Plus Pot can make Saenchai carry his weight by leaning forward. Even if the larger person is out of "fight" shape, a drill like this benefits size inherently because no movement is involved, just clinching.

2.) Look at the effort output differences between Pot / X and Saenchai. Pot and X throw pretty much a non stop volley of knees where Saenchai seems to choose to barely through any. As good as they might be, I refuse to believe that Saenchai only threw the few knees he did because he was simply unable. Further, watch at energy and tension differences at the point of engagement. Saenchai is more or less hand fighting when they come in vs X and Pot are trying to dominate.

Again, the videos are awesome and I'm going to watch these several times over to see what I can gleen. However, I think these videos need to be taken as instructional and not some inferential tool to show how Pot is dominating the #1 fighter when Saenchai has nothing to gain from going bananas in such a situation.

I also agree with this statement. I hope no one believes that I am trying to infer that Pot is in any way a better fighter than Saenchai. Pot was most definitely a top-notch fighter in his day and has serious skills, specifically being known for his clinch game.... but comparing him to Saenchai is silly. Pot was a great fighter, but Saenchai is as elite as they come.

The main testaments to Pots clinch skills are that he dominates guys who much larger than him with the same relative ease, and the fact that Saenchai was as admittedly awed as he was with Pots skills. (see Saenchai's quote at the bottom of post #1)

**KneesBldChar** · Posted On: 8/11/2010 2:15pm

100% agree with the above. The body tilt is something you don't see very often at all and it's so stupid strong, especially considering it's application to not only straight Muay Thai, but to MMA as well.

Further, many people think that for clinch to be completely dominant you need full plum. So not true. In fact sadly, I'm begining to prefer one hand behind the head and the other on the off arm as a means of control. Especially at the amateur level where there are no elbows to the face to make putting a hand down to block a knee less appealing. Not to mention when someone fights to get a plum they waste far more energy if you control them at the elbow / bicep. Awesome vids.