Standups/escapes from turtle in gi grappling

**Blue Negation** · Posted On: 8/08/2010 3:11pm

When I practice no-gi, I can often hit escapes from the turtle/quarters position back to standing. I try to hit sitouts, getting a bit out and then doing a switch to get behind them, hip heisting - but I have tons of trouble executing the same moves when grappling in the gi.

The basic move is like this:

YouTube- ‪Joe Dubuque on KOLAT.COM 2X NCAA Champion Outside Leg Stand-Up‬&lrm;
without the spin to the knees at the end - instead going for throws or a kimura or just switching in to face them. My knees can't take that ****.

Other examples:
YouTube- ‪Wrestling Instruction Inside Stand Up by Carl Adams‬&lrm;
YouTube- ‪Outside leg Stand-up‬&lrm;

If I can secure a kimura/double wrist lock grip before beginning the standup or during it, I seem to have success - but if I can't, it gets sunk.

Especially against much larger partners who I basically can't trap-and-roll or roll for the legs for a leg control (works as a reversal even in no-leglock situations) I can't seem to do much of anything except try to roll over my shoulder and get open guard, which can end up just giving them north-south if they play it right.

There are two basic problems introduced, from what I've found, when trying techniques such as these in gi grappling.
1) it is easier than in a no-gi situation for them to suck me into them with their grips or even one grip, preventing me from moving my hips away from theirs.
2) there is the ever-present threat of them getting a lapel grip around my neck. In no-gi it is much harder for them to get a choke one-handed, so if I can handfight and control one wrist I'm safe - but not so in gi. Rolling bow-and arrow chokes, lapel and elbow choke, using it as an aid for a turnover, simply pulling me up and breaking my spine alignment using the grip - tons of problems.

So, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with, tips concerning, or links to techniques for escaping to the feet in a gi grappling situation. Techniques that work against a 350+lb wrestling coach/ Judo rokudan would be especially handy, but I'm trying to be reasonable here.

**CoffeeFan** · Posted On: 8/09/2010 5:02pm

I will look for some stuff tonight on what techniques I employ from that position. Generally speaking, getting to your feet from here is harder with a gi so you may want to pursue other options.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 8/09/2010 6:42pm

Originally Posted by Blue Negation

So, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with, tips concerning, or links to techniques for escaping to the feet in a gi grappling situation. Techniques that work against a 350+lb wrestling coach/ Judo rokudan would be especially handy, but I'm trying to be reasonable here.

I'm afraid I don't have any links, but the only things along these lines I have been taught are:

1. Moving and sweeping to then regain 'open guard' from which you move backwards to your knees, preferable with one knee up and one knee down in the 'proposal position' and stand up from there. Then if your opponent decides to follow you you have options to throw them with O soto gari and Uchimata and then to re-enter groundwork from a more advantageous position.

2. Doing the classic Judo arm grab and roll into Ushiro kesa gatame( Kuzure kesa gatame) then switching to Mune gatame and then standing up or going to Uki gatame (knee on belly) followed by standing up.

3. Doing the 'sit out' to a Waki gatame then switching your hips so that you're in a Kami shiho gatame(North south) position only with uke facing down and then standing up.

Though your chances of achieving these on someone who's 25+ stone and highly experienced are probably going to be limited.

**Blue Negation** · Posted On: 8/09/2010 8:39pm

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

I'm afraid I don't have any links, but the only things along these lines I have been taught are:

1. Moving and sweeping to then regain 'open guard' from which you move backwards to your knees, preferable with one knee up and one knee down in the 'proposal position' and stand up from there. Then if your opponent decides to follow you you have options to throw them with O soto gari and Uchimata and then to re-enter groundwork from a more advantageous position.

2. Doing the classic Judo arm grab and roll into Ushiro kesa gatame( Kuzure kesa gatame) then switching to Mune gatame and then standing up or going to Uki gatame (knee on belly) followed by standing up.

3. Doing the 'sit out' to a Waki gatame then switching your hips so that you're in a Kami shiho gatame(North south) position only with uke facing down and then standing up.

Though your chances of achieving these on someone who's 25+ stone and highly experienced are probably going to be limited.

Thanks for your input.

I'm not sure what you mean by #1 ("sweeping"?) and as for #2 and #3, they're not an "escape" - I am looking for techniques specifically to escape back to standing, not secure a pin and then give it up. I am very comfortable with both 2 and 3 already - but when they don't work, I would like an option to simply escape.

I'm starting to think that maybe the only escapes back to standing for gi grappling involve first putting the opponent under you, which is a bit disheartening.

I *have* had some success with doing the "peek out" when the opponent is in front of me. Similar entry to the waki gatame sit out, but you don't have the elbow secure, only the wrist. Sit out, keep head and neck pressure on them, then either spin back to end in front on them or keep going and secure a back ride. Works just fine, and if they fight to keep a grip on the side that you're sitting out to, it is easy to secure either the waki gatame or a bent armlock. Bit problematic if they have an opposite side grip, however.

I am especially interested in escapes back to standing when the opponent is behind you and you are on all fours/turtled.

I will look for some stuff tonight on what techniques I employ from that position. Generally speaking, getting to your feet from here is harder with a gi so you may want to pursue other options.

Thanks, I'm interested in seeing your perspective.

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 8/09/2010 9:17pm

Wait for matte.

**indy007** · Posted On: 8/09/2010 9:27pm

I like the rolling knee bar.

YouTube- ‪Rolling Kneebar from Turtle‬&lrm;

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 8/09/2010 11:10pm

Originally Posted by indy007

I like the rolling knee bar.

YouTube- ‪Rolling Kneebar from Turtle‬&lrm;

I do this one.

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 8/09/2010 11:11pm

*Sigh, new video project.

**CoffeeFan** · Posted On: 8/09/2010 11:24pm

YouTube- ‪Leo Vieira - recover the guard from turtle position‬&lrm;

Recover Guard: I personally think getting into full or half guard is easiest move to accomplish with a larger opponent has you playing a defensive turtle.

YouTube- ‪Wrestler's Sit Out From Turtle Position‬&lrm;

Hip Heist Escape: Always a good option as well.

YouTube- ‪JJ Machado Online Training : Sit Out with Arm Trap‬&lrm;

Rollover Sweep: If someone bear hugs you to prevent the hip heist.

Actually I want you to pay attention to this position here:

It's at 1:05 on the previous video. The turtle with one arm hooked (near or far-side) is a great position for sweeps and submissions in turtle. I can't find any video of the particular moves I like to do so I'll try to film some when I get to the studio tomorrow.

These don't necessarily apply to gi, but they are good to know.

YouTube- ‪Sit-out Turn-In‬&lrm;
YouTube- ‪Granby Roll‬&lrm;