Iridology

**MrGalt** · Posted On: 8/08/2010 11:08am

I'm back in the US for a couple of weeks and I ran into an old friend at a grocery store last night. He was buying a bottle of apple vinegar at one in the morning, which of course begs an explanation.

He told me that he went with his father to see his iridologist and the iridologist told him that he needed to detoxify himself. I asked him what he needed to get detoxified from and he told me, "The doc asked me if I had ever been exposed to chemicals and I told him of course I work around some chemicals in the garage and he said, 'No, like a lot of chemicals,' and I told him that I had been soaked in hydraulic fluid once when I first get into the Army..."
"Dude, the universe is made of chemicals. How could you not have answered yes to his question?"
"No way, he diagnosed my sister's thyroid problem too."
"Your sister weighs about 300 pounds. She's desperate for somebody to tell her she has a thyroid problem. Even better if he can meet her at the buffet to do so."
"I'm going to try it. I don't see the harm in it."

I didn't want to piss my friend off but I don't understand his squishy-headed thinking in this regard. We grew up together going to classes in our school system's "gifted program" and all that junk. I know he's just as intelligent as I am, and usually he's a pretty critical thinker.

This morning I got up and it was bugging me so I sent him the following e-mail, which is consistent with our conversation style although I probably look like a dick to outisders:

Originally Posted by E-mail

_____,

Biometric Identification is awesome. I'm not a conspiracy nut nor am I likely to rob a bank and feel the need to go on the lam so I generally think that the ability to prove my identity quickly and effectively without the need to carry any special instruments or documentation would be really cool. I guess what I'm saying is I'd be first on line to receive the Mark of the Beast. Luckily, I don't seem to have to. There's already something cooler. Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_recognition

Read that stuff dude, and pay special attention to the first three paragraphs. Oh, and while you're at it, if you have a minute answer three questions for me:

1. How does iris recognition work?
2. What's something that might make it not work?
3. Why did I show you this?

-______.

So I'm asking for opinions if anyone still uses this subforum. What is the best way to bring somebody around to the fact that this iridology **** is robbing his whole family? I know I should leave it alone but we've been friends a long time and it really bothers me to see him taken like this.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 8/08/2010 11:25am

There is enough information out there that makes the Apple Cider vinegar kind of work.

Intelligence=/=common sense.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/apple-cider-vinegar?

No, I think it is BS but, if you put together enough unfinished research even intelligent people become idiots.

**helmutlvx** · Posted On: 8/08/2010 7:32pm

This all looks like eyeball phrenology to me.

I think I read somewhere that there are certain minute health benefits from daily ingestion of small amounts of vinegar, similar to very well-moderated alcohol intake, but I can't imagine how it would "detoxify" the body.

Well, now we could get into the whole "detoxification-it's-really-only-diuretics-don't-let-that-old-lady-give-you-a-colonic-she-gets-off-on-it" deal, but I think it would be better if you just kept being sarcastic and present evidence to the contrary.

Or buy your friend some KINOKI foot pads.
YouTube- ‪Kinoki Foot Pads‬&lrm;

edit: I remembered where I heard that bit about vinegar. It was to help stabilize diabetic blood sugar. I thought it was something to do with blood pressure.

**MrGalt** · Posted On: 8/08/2010 8:17pm

He is bathing in the vinegar, not drinking it. Where's your WebMD now?

**helmutlvx** · Posted On: 8/08/2010 8:28pm

Wait, what?

It's for the bathtub? You're kidding, right?

Please wait. I need to consult Dr. Oz.

edit: Opra-I mean, Dr. Oz says it's part of Reiki and he should feel better very soon.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 8/08/2010 9:26pm

Originally Posted by MrGalt

He is bathing in the vinegar, not drinking it. Where's your WebMD now?

Probably in the same place as your "gifted" writing skills.

Detoxify in relation to vinegar usually involves ingestion.
http://www.detox-for-life.com/apple-cider-vinegar.html

Your friend is weird as that is the first I have encountered for bathing.

**Nicko1** · Posted On: 8/09/2010 6:18am

Originally Posted by MrGalt

What is the best way to bring somebody around to the fact that this iridology **** is robbing his whole family?

Eye gouge!

Seriously, your friend is suffering from the same delusion that plagues any victim of cold reading. Observer bias, I think it's called? He is under the impression that this fraud has genuinely diagnosed a genuine problem, when in fact he merely feeds back the diagnosis that people want (thyroid) or diagnoses a problem that does not exist ("toxins")and prescribes a harmless placebo (bath of vinegar).

It is just difficult to say what the solution is. You have already pointed out the inherent stability of the iris (ie. not some sort of "gauge" that can be read at a glance). You could try getting his sister diagnosed by a real doctor. You could try pointing out that if hydraulic fluid could penetrate his skin, he would leak blood like a sieve. There is a good youtube video of Richard Dawkins interviewing Derren Brown where it is explained exactly how general statements can be made to seem insightful.

Ultimately, however, your friend believes because he thinks he has evidence that justifies his doing so. You're going to either have to show him that the "evidence" he posesses is meaningless, or provide evidence that he finds more authoritative.

Did he even feel sick before being "diagnosed" with these "toxins"?

**Cake of Doom** · Posted On: 8/09/2010 8:23am

Well controlled scientific evaluation of iridology has shown entirely negative results, with all rigorous double blind tests failing to find any statistical significance to its claims.
In a study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (Simon et al.[7] 1979), three iridologists incorrectly identified kidney disease in photographs of irises and often disagreed with each other. The researchers concluded: "iridology was neither selective nor specific, and the likelihood of correct detection was statistically no better than chance."
Another study was published in the British Medical Journal (Knipschild 1988)[8] by Paul Knipschild MD, of the University of Limburg in Maastricht, selected 39 patients who were due to have their gall bladder removed the following day, because of suspected gallstones. He also selected a group of people who did not have diseased gall bladders to act as a control. A group of 5 iridologists examined a series of slides of both groups' irises. The iridologists could not correctly identify which patients had gall bladder problems and which had healthy gall bladders. For example, one of the iridologists diagnosed 49% of the patients with gall stones as having them and 51% as not having them. Dr Knipschild concluded:, "...this study showed that iridology is not a useful diagnostic aid." Iridologists defended themselves and attacked the study's methodology.
Edzard Ernst said in 2000: "Does iridology work? [...] This search strategy resulted in 77 publications on the subject of iridology. [...] All of the uncontrolled studies and several of the unmasked experiments suggested that iridology was a valid diagnostic tool. The discussion that follows refers to the 4 controlled, masked evaluations of the diagnostic validity of iridology. [...] In conclusion, few controlled studies with masked evaluation of diagnostic validity have been published. None have found any benefit from iridology."[2]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridology

Unfortunatly, if your friend is a true believer, you'll have a tough job convincing him of anything to the contrary.

**Shamash** · Posted On: 8/09/2010 10:10am

Originally Posted by MrGalt

I'm back in the US for a couple of weeks and I ran into an old friend at a grocery store last night. He was buying a bottle of apple vinegar at one in the morning, which of course begs an explanation.

He told me that he went with his father to see his iridologist and the iridologist told him that he needed to detoxify himself. I asked him what he needed to get detoxified from and he told me, "The doc asked me if I had ever been exposed to chemicals and I told him of course I work around some chemicals in the garage and he said, 'No, like a lot of chemicals,' and I told him that I had been soaked in hydraulic fluid once when I first get into the Army..."
"Dude, the universe is made of chemicals. How could you not have answered yes to his question?"
"No way, he diagnosed my sister's thyroid problem too."
"Your sister weighs about 300 pounds. She's desperate for somebody to tell her she has a thyroid problem. Even better if he can meet her at the buffet to do so."
"I'm going to try it. I don't see the harm in it."

I didn't want to piss my friend off but I don't understand his squishy-headed thinking in this regard. We grew up together going to classes in our school system's "gifted program" and all that junk. I know he's just as intelligent as I am, and usually he's a pretty critical thinker.

This morning I got up and it was bugging me so I sent him the following e-mail, which is consistent with our conversation style although I probably look like a dick to outisders:

So I'm asking for opinions if anyone still uses this subforum. What is the best way to bring somebody around to the fact that this iridology **** is robbing his whole family? I know I should leave it alone but we've been friends a long time and it really bothers me to see him taken like this.

Your attempts to reason with him will have the same result as debating anti-gunners or true believer religous fundamentalists.

Did his sister even have blood work done to diagnose her thyroid problem because that is the only way I'm aware of that accurately diagnoses the problem.

**MrGalt** · Posted On: 8/13/2010 8:46pm

Originally Posted by Shamash

Your attempts to reason with him will have the same result as debating anti-gunners or true believer religous fundamentalists.

Did his sister even have blood work done to diagnose her thyroid problem because that is the only way I'm aware of that accurately diagnoses the problem.

D00d, it's the toxins, man! You can't find them with your closed-minded Western science!

He's leaving the country in two weeks and will be far, far away from Amish "doctors" so I guess the damage will be limited.