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  1. frogninja is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 9:11am


     Style: Mixed, Hybrid.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    JKD is the precursor to MMA Shannon Lee and the discovery Channel are my sources

    Sure man, shoot me a line! We haven't gotten together since before Christmas but we are looking to start up again as soon as we can get a big group together!
  2. xael is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2010 6:41pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I did research on this man Hargrave and his claims a while back, I do not think people read my results. He is clearly fraud and I will link the proof.

    First off, some facts need to be established.
    Gary Dill was shunned by James Lee. James Lee is dead, so now it's Gary's word vs a few corpses.

    Gary Dill is as much a joke as Carter. They are all self promoted through their own association (I will list the proof below). It is a vicious circle of lies. I am a student of true Kenpo from Parker / Tracy lineage and JKD from Guru Dan's lineage including FMA. There is nothing here I am seeing that is legit, other than what Carter may have learned from his Escrima student / teacher.

    Here are the compiled facts:

    All his training and promotions seem to be associated with and through either Gary Dill or those of the Aiki-Jujitsu field through which Gary is associated with.



    This is what I found from him :
    • First Martial Arts Training in 1968 with Hanshi Lou Angel in Goju Karate
    • Authored Original Jeet Kune Do Training Manual
    • Second Generation Jeet Kune Do Instructor
    • Certified JKD Instructor 1992, Jeet Kune Do Association
    • Founding Board Member 1992, Jeet Kune Do Association
    • Authored Combat Martial Arts Kempo Karate Manual 1993
    • Instructor of the Year JKD, World Martial Arts Hall of Fame, Presented by G. W. Dill and Jeet Kune Do Association See Certificate -- Photo
    • Certified JKD Instructor FJKD Association 1993 See Certificate
    • Certified Black Belt Tae Kwon Do 1993
    • Certified Black Belt Bushido Kempo, Promoted by G.W. Dill -- See Certificate --Article
    • Certified Black Belt Aiki Jitsu, Promoted Dr. Farenelli -- See Certificate
    • Certified National College of Martial Arts, Instructor JKD, Black Belt Bushido Kempo, Black Belt Aiki Jitsu, Certified Lou Angel and G. W. Dill -- See Certificate
    • Executive Director World Jeet Kune Do Federation 1992
    • Certified Black Belt 2nd Dan Kempo, Promoted by Toma Soke Okinawa and Japan, and Rod Sacharnoski -- See Certificate
    • Certified Black Belt 2nd Dan Jujitsu, Promoted by Toma Soke Okinawa and Japan, and Rod Sacharnoski -- See Certificate
    • Certified Black Belt 3nd Dan Kempo, Promoted by Toma Soke Okinawa and Japan, and Rod Sacharnoski -- See Certificate
    • Certified Black Belt 3rd Dan Jujitsu, Promoted by Toma Soke Okinawa and Japan, and Rod Sacharnoski -- See Certificate
    • Executive Director American Combat Kempo Association 1992
    • Certified Grandmaster Kung Fu 8th Degree Black Sash
    • Certified 8th Dan Black Belt Grandmaster Aiki Jujitsu
    • Instructor Headmaster Juko Kai Kokusai Remnei 1994
    • Certified 3rd Dan Black Belt Goshin Jutsu
    • Combat Martial Arts system featured on local newscasts. 1995
    • Awarded Karate Instructor of the Year, Inducted Martial Arts Hall of Fame 1995
    • Certified Shihan 5th Dan Kempo World Certified Instructor, Promoted by Dr. E. A Moore, Prof. Thomas Burdine, Prof. John Willaims, Prof. Ed Gross, Prof. Ray Gunther, Prof. Pelligrini. -- See Certificate
    • Certified Professor of Martial Arts 1995
    • Appointed Executive Director World Martial Arts Hall of Fame Board Member 1995 -- See Certificate
    • Appointed a Director United Kung Fu Federation of North America 1995 -- See Certificate
    • Certified Professor 7th Dan Kempo Ryu Karate. -- See Certificate
    • Certified Professor 7th Dan Combat Kempo Karate, American Kenpo Bu-Jutsu Karate -- See Certificate
    • Awarded best martial art school in the U. S. Recognized by U. S Congress and US Senate.1996 -- See Certificate See Certificate See Certificate See Certificate
    • Awarded Governors Comendation for best martial arts school -- See Certificate
    • Certified Hanshi 8th Dan Kempo Ryu Karate, 2000 -- See Certificate
    • Released Top Selling Original JKD Training and Ranking Video Series
    • Certified Soke Head Founder of a new Martial Art Style. Father of Combat Martial Arts. 2000 Certified by World Martial Arts Hall of Fame Sokeship Council, Board of Directors. -- See Certificate
    • Certified 10th Dan Kempo -- Multiple Certificates
    • Released American Combat kempo Training and Ranking Videos
    • Director World Kempo Association.
    • JKD Division Director World Budo Alliance
    • Certified Master Instructor Romania JKD Association
    • Inducted United States Martial Arts Association Hall of Fame 2001
    • Grandmaster of the Year United States Martial Arts Association. 2001 -- See Certificate
    • World Budo Alliance Grading Board Chairman
    • World Soke Council Member
    • Chief Instructor Air Martial Anti Terrorist Flight Crew Training
    • Developed system adapted for training United States Marines
    • Member Hawaii Martial Arts International Society.
    • Member World Filipino Martial Arts Association
    • Certified Guro Escrima -- See Certificate
    • Certified Grandmaster 8th Dan Ju Jitsu 2009
    • Certified Grandmaster 8th Degree Black Sash Kung Fu 2009
    • Member of many martial arts associations, federations, and organizations, also many organizations cerfifying the same ranks. This is a work in progress over the years. For the Masters and Grandmasters we may have left out we only have the greatest amount of love and respect and we hope to add everyone.
    Furthermore a lot of the "promotions" to new rank were done by none other than "Soke" affiliated people, a lot through the "kempo" of Ron Bradbury Sr. Go figure, he himself was promoted through Soke affiliations... Funny thing, some of these claims are during the time of Ed Parker... Funny.

    Info on Ron Bradbury Sr.
    http://members.cox.net/wmartin38/PRO...A_,%20SOKE.htm

    Apparently, Hargrave was certified in Escrima under his own student in JKD? Ed Goco Galang is who certified him in Escrima, yet when you research Ed, you find this :
    Certified Full Instructor of the World Jeet Kune Do Federation (Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do) under Professor Carter
    Hargrave. Trained and attended seminars, under the late Sifu Ted Lucaylucay, Sifu Lamar Davis II, Sifu Jessie
    Glover and Professor Gary Dill
    http://ckiusa.jkdkickboxing.com/cki-aboutus.html

    Sadly this guy is probably the only true martial artist in this quagmire of ****.



    Nothing against these men such as Sifu Lucaylucay (rip, he was amazing), or Lamar, however Lamar and the latter are known for promoting people through seminar or videos.. usually no long term training. I find it hillarious that this guy was from Carter and Dill in the JKD area.


    Anyhow my point is, if you look deep enough you will find that they are all connected in a vicious circle of bullshit. Especially that of the "bushido Kemnmnmnmnpo" crap they are grandmasters of. This Soke association is a huge pile of **** and lies.
    Last edited by xael; 6/22/2010 6:46pm at .
  3. RainBurgess is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/02/2010 3:34am


     Style: Anything that works.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Nice site!

    I seen some stuff on Gary Dill. I have trained on and off with him for 12 years or so. He is no fake and I have never heard of a ghost Samurai. Lol.
    His tapes use to suck as far as quality is concerned. All in all training with him is fun and a learning experience. Good resistance training and a hint weaponry realism. Based on my opinion he is geared more towards combat not a tap out. Head stomps, a knife in your skull multiple attackers...ect..ect. Everyone likes to question backgrounds and I am sure if I dig I could find something on anyone. 90% of Martial Arts in the US for many years was on a fake it till you make it basis. True masters did not make it a habbit of opening school in the US. Perception can often be misleading. At one point in time Martial Arts Instructors would not even touch the money now they offer little ninja classes and day care service. I believe in backing up claims and I feel when skill is questioned one should demonstrate. I have trained in martial arts since I was five and am now thirty eight. I am a partial product of Gary Dills training. If you lay claim that his instruction is worthless then please take the time to give me a lesson. I am available to travel and have ring experience. My contact Number is 843-718-7597
  4. devilboy7778 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/02/2010 12:52pm


     Style: Working out

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RainBurgess View Post
    I seen some stuff on Gary Dill. I have trained on and off with him for 12 years or so. He is no fake and I have never heard of a ghost Samurai. Lol.
    His tapes use to suck as far as quality is concerned. All in all training with him is fun and a learning experience. Good resistance training and a hint weaponry realism. Based on my opinion he is geared more towards combat not a tap out. Head stomps, a knife in your skull multiple attackers...ect..ect. Everyone likes to question backgrounds and I am sure if I dig I could find something on anyone. 90% of Martial Arts in the US for many years was on a fake it till you make it basis. True masters did not make it a habbit of opening school in the US. Perception can often be misleading. At one point in time Martial Arts Instructors would not even touch the money now they offer little ninja classes and day care service. I believe in backing up claims and I feel when skill is questioned one should demonstrate. I have trained in martial arts since I was five and am now thirty eight. I am a partial product of Gary Dills training. If you lay claim that his instruction is worthless then please take the time to give me a lesson. I am available to travel and have ring experience. My contact Number is 843-718-7597

    Will you be using a no touch knockout?
  5. frogninja is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2010 10:40am


     Style: Mixed, Hybrid.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RainBurgess View Post
    I seen some stuff on Gary Dill. I have trained on and off with him for 12 years or so. He is no fake and I have never heard of a ghost Samurai. Lol.
    His tapes use to suck as far as quality is concerned. All in all training with him is fun and a learning experience. Good resistance training and a hint weaponry realism. Based on my opinion he is geared more towards combat not a tap out. Head stomps, a knife in your skull multiple attackers...ect..ect. Everyone likes to question backgrounds and I am sure if I dig I could find something on anyone. 90% of Martial Arts in the US for many years was on a fake it till you make it basis. True masters did not make it a habbit of opening school in the US. Perception can often be misleading. At one point in time Martial Arts Instructors would not even touch the money now they offer little ninja classes and day care service. I believe in backing up claims and I feel when skill is questioned one should demonstrate. I have trained in martial arts since I was five and am now thirty eight. I am a partial product of Gary Dills training. If you lay claim that his instruction is worthless then please take the time to give me a lesson. I am available to travel and have ring experience. My contact Number is 843-718-7597
    How about getting your instructor certification in only 5 days, certified by Dill himself? Also, what can you possibly say about the "no touch knockout"? Seriously, if I could do this I would start wearing a full body cloak and run around talking like yoda.
  6. hungryjoe is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/03/2010 9:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: judo hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RainBurgess View Post
    I seen some stuff on Gary Dill. I have trained on and off with him for 12 years or so. He is no fake and I have never heard of a ghost Samurai. Lol.
    His tapes use to suck as far as quality is concerned. All in all training with him is fun and a learning experience. Good resistance training and a hint weaponry realism. Based on my opinion he is geared more towards combat not a tap out. Head stomps, a knife in your skull multiple attackers...ect..ect. Everyone likes to question backgrounds and I am sure if I dig I could find something on anyone. 90% of Martial Arts in the US for many years was on a fake it till you make it basis. True masters did not make it a habbit of opening school in the US. Perception can often be misleading. At one point in time Martial Arts Instructors would not even touch the money now they offer little ninja classes and day care service. I believe in backing up claims and I feel when skill is questioned one should demonstrate. I have trained in martial arts since I was five and am now thirty eight. I am a partial product of Gary Dills training. If you lay claim that his instruction is worthless then please take the time to give me a lesson. I am available to travel and have ring experience. My contact Number is 843-718-7597
    So what's your take on Hargrave from within the Dill group.

    Looks like you're in South Carolina. When is a good time to call you?

    Joe
  7. xael is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2010 5:10pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RainBurgess View Post
    I seen some stuff on Gary Dill. I have trained on and off with him for 12 years or so. He is no fake and I have never heard of a ghost Samurai. Lol.
    His tapes use to suck as far as quality is concerned. All in all training with him is fun and a learning experience. Good resistance training and a hint weaponry realism. Based on my opinion he is geared more towards combat not a tap out. Head stomps, a knife in your skull multiple attackers...ect..ect. Everyone likes to question backgrounds and I am sure if I dig I could find something on anyone. 90% of Martial Arts in the US for many years was on a fake it till you make it basis. True masters did not make it a habbit of opening school in the US. Perception can often be misleading. At one point in time Martial Arts Instructors would not even touch the money now they offer little ninja classes and day care service. I believe in backing up claims and I feel when skill is questioned one should demonstrate. I have trained in martial arts since I was five and am now thirty eight. I am a partial product of Gary Dills training. If you lay claim that his instruction is worthless then please take the time to give me a lesson. I am available to travel and have ring experience. My contact Number is 843-718-7597

    Was this directed to me?
    I have no idea who you are or what you have learned from Dill. I do know for certain a lot of the claims I listed in this thread are total bullshit. I also know that James Lee had warned Dill that he was on dangerous ground at one point before he died.

    It is common to see people riding on the coat-tails of dead men. This has been done to death with Bruce Lee and Ed Parker. After Parker died, so many grandmasters of Kenpo rose up... it was disgusting. Even now 2 of them (Tatum and Tracy) have pretty much become the "authorities" on Kenpo. Though it does not stop here. Many claim a secret knowledge from Mitose or Chow that separates them from the rest and they of course change the name etc.

    This has been done with JKD to the point of making me want to vomit. Whether or not you have learned bonified techniques... I can care less. Do I think Dill in vast years of self promotion and association with other frauds and even some legit people has failed to pick up the most common techniques? Hell no. You can learn the 5 ways of attack from simply reading a book. Apply some basic footwork and boxing and you are set. Does this certify a person or make them a master? Not at all.

    Dill takes things to the next level. A good indication is when they involve the mystical and they cloud things up. A lack of transparency and proof usually red flag nonsense of this sort.

    Got to his website and do some looking for yourself. If you really buy into that bullshit then you have some serious problems. If you see the lies for what they really are... maybe you should rethink your position.

    Also, I can care less that the man does not teach MMA type of fighting. I too am familiar with training toward a combat practical approach. I have seen the real deal and I can tell you this man is not it.

    Another thing:

    Learning martial arts takes serious time. Sure you can learn concepts overnight, but to perfect them or do them flawless with the right speed and precision takes time. Furthermore, you must be in shape. You cannot be a lazy slob or have a poor work ethic, this is not the movies.

    If someone asssociated with JKD is promoting fly by night instructorship he or she is a total fraud. There is no way possible you can turn an ordinary Joe into an instructor of JKD in a week. It would be possible if they were a total prodigy and maybe already had a back ground in boxing and escrima, but otherwise, good luck on that. Recorrecting the ways of striking and footwork would take longer than a week to do.

    Also the association with the no touch knockouts... that is complete bullshit. This is the same sickening crap that George Dillman promotes. This has been proven false so many times it's ridiculous.

    You list your number and say get in touch and give you a lesson, if you have this kind of time and money, go to the Innosanto Academy and learn from the best.
    Last edited by xael; 8/06/2010 5:18pm at .
  8. RainBurgess is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2010 7:54pm


     Style: Anything that works.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Just a Response

    Sorry for not getting back to this board sooner. Thanks for calling HungryJoe I would like to talk with you more later. If you guys have questions for Dill I will ask him. As far as easy ranking you get what you pay for. The Professor does not run a papermill. All training halls sell rank in some form unless your training is free. I would hate to offend anyone here but who really cares about rank anymore? Its what you can do in the ring or in a self defense situation that makes the diffrence. I have used techniques instructed by Professor Dill in real situations and have had to deal with multiple attackers on many occassions. As far as no contact knock outs haha, I guess im not that good yet. I could shoot you in the head with a bean bag? Does that count? Lol. I like to train with Professor Dill as I do many others. In my opinion if he is a fake than fake martial arts is fookin awesome! Everyone should sign up. I am not hear to call people out or start trouble. I try to respect everyone. The man has been training longer than some of us have been alive. I know by my speaking up I may become a target on this board. I am willing to put any internet tough guys on a fight card but they normally dont show. =(

    JKD. Bruce told his students to teach only small groups of friends etc... from what most of us are told. It is clear that James told Dill the same thing in that letter if you read it. The question is how many listened? (one) Keep in mind Dan was on the same board as Gary once. Also Dan does his little Seminars, teaching more than a few. I remember him coming to Charlotte years back when Scott Shields school was big into JKD.

    I would like to see some evidence that Dill is a fake. Cross rankings or federations who like him because of who he is have no bearing. I want someone to show me that the techniques he teaches is fake. I mean thats what it all boils down to anyway right? Will what he teaches work? Yes! Unless your a fairy and are to scared to apply the knowedge. There is no reason to bad mouth the Professor. If you got solid documentation that could be used as proof display it.

    Just my 2 cents. :badgrin:
  9. RainBurgess is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2010 8:09pm


     Style: Anything that works.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NotThatBruce View Post
    I bought the first level of his system several years ago (when VHS was cool). I thought the techniques might be very useful, if you can convince your assailant to stand perfectly still.

    On the issue of whether or not he is a fraud, the question is whether it can be proven that he is promising something for which he is being paid, and then knowingly not delivering. Obviously, easier said than done. On the other hand, if you can prove that he is not delivering, but can't prove he is in bad faith, one could possibly have a colorable claim of breach of contract. Not a crime, and you would be entitled to a refund, or some other reasonable measure of damages.

    His emails threatening lawsuits reveal that he has not, in fact, retained counsel. Or, alternatively, he is ignoring the advice of his counsel. Since the email appears to be a form that he sends out to anyone who raises his ire, I am convinced the former is true. Any credible threat would come directly from his lawyer.

    Since he has put so much effort into making himself a public figure, the standard set in NY Times v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964), would apply to any defamation action. Essentially, in order to prevail, he would have to prove that joe (or whomever) had the subjective knowledge that his statements were false when he made them. Nearly impossible to prove, and probably irrelevant since joe's statements amount to a rebuttal of Hargrave's own claims, which Hargrave refuses to substantiate.

    *These are my opinions, and may not be completely accurate. Any statements made herein should not be construed as legal advice. If you need legal advice, you should seek the services of a competent attorney.
    You should have trained longer you may have learned some footwork. Rofl.
    A moving target is better for JKD practitioners. Realistic Relationship of Opponents Rhythm. Adapt. When anyone talks bad about the Professor they are also talking down about James and Bruce. He was a student of James for about 2 years. (Fact) Bruce Lee and James was roomates at one time. (Fact) I am not targeting you by the way bro just making a point. When a person talks about Dill they are bad mouthing JKD. He has instructed what he learned in his time with James. So basicly people are calling James a fake in my opinion. People say him and james fell out. So what if they did? I fell out with my mom once she was on my last nerve. He still had acquired knowledge from James end of story as i am still my mothers son Dill will always be a student of James.
  10. frogninja is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2010 8:57pm


     Style: Mixed, Hybrid.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RainBurgess View Post
    Sorry for not getting back to this board sooner. Thanks for calling HungryJoe I would like to talk with you more later. If you guys have questions for Dill I will ask him. As far as easy ranking you get what you pay for. The Professor does not run a papermill. All training halls sell rank in some form unless your training is free. I would hate to offend anyone here but who really cares about rank anymore? Its what you can do in the ring or in a self defense situation that makes the diffrence. I have used techniques instructed by Professor Dill in real situations and have had to deal with multiple attackers on many occassions. As far as no contact knock outs haha, I guess im not that good yet. I could shoot you in the head with a bean bag? Does that count? Lol. I like to train with Professor Dill as I do many others. In my opinion if he is a fake than fake martial arts is fookin awesome! Everyone should sign up. I am not hear to call people out or start trouble. I try to respect everyone. The man has been training longer than some of us have been alive. I know by my speaking up I may become a target on this board. I am willing to put any internet tough guys on a fight card but they normally dont show. =(

    JKD. Bruce told his students to teach only small groups of friends etc... from what most of us are told. It is clear that James told Dill the same thing in that letter if you read it. The question is how many listened? (one) Keep in mind Dan was on the same board as Gary once. Also Dan does his little Seminars, teaching more than a few. I remember him coming to Charlotte years back when Scott Shields school was big into JKD.

    I would like to see some evidence that Dill is a fake. Cross rankings or federations who like him because of who he is have no bearing. I want someone to show me that the techniques he teaches is fake. I mean thats what it all boils down to anyway right? Will what he teaches work? Yes! Unless your a fairy and are to scared to apply the knowedge. There is no reason to bad mouth the Professor. If you got solid documentation that could be used as proof display it.

    Just my 2 cents. :badgrin:
    You need to seriously re-read the board if you think we are saying that EVERYTHING he does is fake, any idiot can watch a Bruce Lee movie or rent some MMA vids and learn the basics, hell I have trained with people in the military that have had no real life fight experience and are complete BAD ASSES when put to the test. We are saying that some of his claims, hell MOST of his claims are BULLSHIT! Seriously science has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the "no touch knockout" is impossible, hell it breaks the laws of physics and its a LAW, and that's not even his most outlandish claim! lol...

    This particular section however is dedicated to every ones favorite poser, Carter Hargrave. Let me pose this one to you, I have studied the Filipino Arts and JKD concepts through the Inosanto (in particular Terry Gibson, God rest is soul) school for more years than I care to share, lets say 25+ and I have studied in more countries than I can remember (damn old age), and ill tell you this; claiming that you can teach ANYONE to be an instructor in 5 days, is complete utter BULLSHIDO! You cant refute this, or explain it away, hell you cant fix most peoples posture in 5 days much less teach them to teach others, the mere thought is ludicrous. I run a very small school in Tulsa, OK and my best friend runs one in Edmond, OK. Shoot me a message I would love to train with you, hell I would friggan love to see what you learned from Dill, completely serious. Shoot me a message and we will meet up, but I am no internet tough guy, don't come to my school with an attitude or an ego, leave it at the door.

    As far as you learning great technique from Dill, I couldn't be more happier for you! I learned some pretty amazing tech's watching Kung Fu action theater as a child. Its not skill we refute its bull **** claims! Take a look at his website and while your at it take a look at any of Hargrave's more than 110 websites. All self promoting, all unverifiable garbage, or well known paper mills as you put it. Do your research, come to your own decision.
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