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  1. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2010 9:37pm


     Style: Bowie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Where the "Cross" came from

    The Cross, as we know it now, didn't exist in early boxing. A punch with the back hand was simply called a "Rear Straight." A "Cross" was an abbreviation for the term "Cross-Counter."

    The Cross-Counter was a single-time counter-punch in which a defender would let the attacker's Lead Straight (usually a straight left) pass over his right shoulder and punch the attacker in the left side of his head, crossing his right over the attacker's left. Everyone knew it and you see it all the way up through even the great Jack Dempsey.

    Besides the Cross-Counter, there were other, similar, single-time counter-punches. One of the most interesting ones is to avoid the Lead Straight Left by stepping to the right and upper-cutting underneath the opponents left arm.

    Here's a sample of a few of them.

    Theory and Practice of Boxing - Cross-Counter:


    Shaw's Cross-Counter:


    Dempsey's Cross-Counter:


    Corbett's Left Hand Cross-Counter:


    Corbett's Crossing on the Jaw:


    Edwards' Right-hand Cross-Counter:


    Davie's Cigarette Cards Right-hand Cross-Counter:


    Davie's Cigarette Left-hand Cross-Counter:


    Davie's Cigarette Cross-Counter with upper-cut:


    Davie's Cigarette Avoiding Left Lead and Cross-Countering with upper-cut:


    Doran's Right-hand Cross-Counter:


    Donnelly's Right-hand Cross-Counter:


    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  2. gttintin is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2010 11:43pm


     Style: kung fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Great find!
  3. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2010 1:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am a big fan of the cross counter uppercuts to the chin. Even lightly, they can be pretty jarring because of the angle and that they hit at a moment when you're not as focused on defending yourself. I also like the left hand single time counter to the body when their arm is extended.
  4. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2010 7:21am


     Style: Bowie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CodosDePiedra View Post
    I am a big fan of the cross counter uppercuts to the chin. Even lightly, they can be pretty jarring because of the angle and that they hit at a moment when you're not as focused on defending yourself. I also like the left hand single time counter to the body when their arm is extended.
    I'm a fan of single-time counters in general. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  5. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2010 7:22am


     Style: Bowie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gttintin View Post
    Great find!
    More of a "collection" really. I began collecting historic examples a few years back after I got into an argument with someone on rec.boxing about the Cross Counter. He claimed it didn't exist and/or only worked on idiots.

    Yeah, I know... "Arguing on the internet..." <shrug>

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  6. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2010 2:30pm


     Style: Bowie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In relation to the Cross-Countering and Uppercut (Davies), I ran across this interesting little story. It's related as autobiographical from, "Men I have Fished With" by Fred Mather, 1897. On pp99, he is in the middle of relating a story concerning shooting his first wild turkey and an argument he had with another fella who though it should belong to him. Naturally, a fight followed. :)

    He was bigger and stronger than I, but lessons from Shel. Hitchcock, Albany's teacher of sparring, gave me confidence, if he could be kept from a "catch-as-catch-can" hold. He struck an awkward swinging blow and got a stinger on the ear. He was astonished, but made a rush, which was avoided, and took one on the nose, which, as Professor Sheldon Hitchcock would have said, "brought the claret." So far I was unharmed except for my right hand, which has never been equal to the biceps which drove it, and I had only learned to use the left as a guard. He gathered himself and struck a straight this time, but I dodged and upper-cut him on the jaw, and, in the language of the Professor, "he grassed."
    Nifty.

    The google-books link: http://books.google.com/books?id=jpo...page&q&f=false

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  7. JBliss is offline
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    Don't mess with the Mega-Buster

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    Out there man, way out there
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    Posted On:
    8/09/2010 2:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: A+B, D-Pad

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i love the right uppercut off of a jab. People never see it coming.
    Secret moves such as hitting a thing with your hand and hitting a thing with your leg have been stolen and degenerated by arts like karate, boxing, muay-thai, Kung-fu, and basketball. -Epicurious

    I for one welcome our new Ninja overlords.
    -Whiteshark

    I figure fighting a group of chunners would be like water torture, its not the force as such, just the constant trickle of chain punches wearing down your sanity. -The Juggernoob
  8. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2010 4:04am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JBliss View Post
    i love the right uppercut off of a jab. People never see it coming.
  9. judoist is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 9:11am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shaw's cross counter would make a nice transition into an armlock. Awesome collection, Kirk.
  10. Spungdeeper is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2010 6:35pm


     Style: HEMA, Judo, Bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    reminds me of using a zornhau to break a zornhau
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