Judo throw or not?

**judoist** · Posted On: 8/04/2010 5:59am

I came across this while I was looking for old judo videos.

YouTube- Warriors judoka

The technique at 0:42 looks somewhat strange. It also looks like a joint manipulation throw, which should make it an illegal tech. for Judo competitions. Is this technique a part of Judo repertoire? If it is, what's it called and do you have any experience with it in randori/shiai?

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 8/04/2010 7:16am

Ude gaeshi. Its not generally classified as a throw rather as a skillfull transition into newaza.

**judoist** · Posted On: 8/04/2010 10:15am

Originally Posted by judoka_uk

Ude gaeshi. Its not generally classified as a throw rather as a skillfull transition into newaza.

How often is it successful in randori and how often are they seen in competitions?

**Res Judicata** · Posted On: 8/04/2010 10:25am

YouTube- Ude Gaeshi

I don't know anyone who does it -- most people favor other techniques from that one handed kenka yotsu type gripping (e.g. sumi gaeshi). Under the rules, it ordinarily will not score in contest -- it's considered a skilfulll ne waza entry -- hence its rareness.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 8/04/2010 11:10am

Originally Posted by judoist

How often is it successful in randori and how often are they seen in competitions?

Its succesfull application in randori depends entirely on your skill level and the skill level of the person you're doing randori with as with every other technique. Its is rarely seen in competitons though I have an inkling I saw Korean woman perform one at the last Olympics in Beijing, I have a feeling she was North Korean. It is more common from those from the former eastern bloc, although even amongst those competitors it is rare.

**BKR** · Posted On: 8/04/2010 1:33pm

As noted, very uncommon. I worked on it a lot for a while in the '90s. Some success in randori, tried it several times in shiai but never successfully. It tends to annoy people because you can slam them on their face if they react a certain way. One Japanese sensei in Denver told me to stop doing it (at his club) because I was going to break someone's face with it. He was laughing when he told me, but I stopped anyway.

There are all sorts of odd skillful entries to ne waza out there. They are probably best classified as "surprise" technques, though.

Ben

**Ryno** · Posted On: 8/04/2010 3:31pm

We refer to this in my club as a "belly roll". My instructor uses it regularly from an outside two on one. It definitely looks pretty Russian when you see it. I prefer it from the inside with an overwrap. It is a money throw for me here. Even against the larger heavies I hit it if my angle is clean. It's to the point now where most of my training partners are savvy and will avoid letting me get an overwrap at all costs, because I'll toss them if I get it.

A few notes. Note in the video the angle that the uke falls, and the tori rolls. It's not straight up. He hits it at angle to take uke to a corner. This is pretty critical. If you don't do this and try to take you opponent straight forward, you may get smashed.

For my personal overwrap variation from the inside, I also get a little nervous that with a single high overwrap, above elbow, that my opponent might reach through with that arem and try to post as he goes over. This would be very bad. So to protect my training partners, I tend to overwrap their forearms, and cup their inside of their triceps. I'll sometimes add some extra security by using my other hand to reach under the trapped arm and cup the outside of their triceps. This keeps them from posting through with the trapped arm.

This throw can at times look a bit like a wrestling lateral drop, particularly when done from the inside as I tend to do.

YouTube- Greg Jones Lateral Drop

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 8/05/2010 9:01am

Originally Posted by Res Judicata

YouTube- Ude Gaeshi

That isn't Ude Gaeshi. This is Ude Gaeshi:
Dailymotion - Kosen Judo Ude Gaeshi - une vidÃ©o Sports et ExtrÃªme@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video@@AMEPARAM@@video

**Res Judicata** · Posted On: 8/05/2010 2:15pm

It's one variant. "Ude geashi" isn't a systematic name, anyway. Its classed as yoko wakare, I believe.

**judoka_uk** · Posted On: 8/05/2010 4:59pm

Originally Posted by Res Judicata

It's one variant. "Ude geashi" isn't a systematic name, anyway. Its classed as yoko wakare, I believe.

If it is a throw i.e there is sufficient separation and there is no arm locking action, it is called yoko-wakare. If there isn't and there is an armlocking action causing uke to try and escape the armlock through taking ukemi and rolling, then it is a skillfull entry into newaza and is called ude-gaeshi.

In the first video there is no armlocking action it is merely a Yoko wakare if you watch the second video closely you can see that a lock is applied and uke has to take ukemi to avoid the lock thus making it Ude gaeshi.