8/06/2010 9:21am, #171
That is because of my bad English, sorry.
The German term "Leibeigener" translates as both "thrall" and "serf".
It was used until the early 19th century in German-speaking territories.
I think English knows the term "serfdom", but it's not exactly the same thing. Serfs in Germany would be correctly translated as "Hörige", AFAIK. The vast majority of the rural population were "Leibeigene" (="thralls"), though, as far as I can recall.
That's why I said we should maybe pre-define our vocabulary, lest we want to sink into endless semantical battles. :read2:
You're the expert, so I am willing to accept any semantical distinctions you apply.
Last edited by Hiro Protagonist; 8/06/2010 9:27am at .
8/06/2010 8:15pm, #172
I'm just popping in to check-up on the debate. I see it's gotten rather technical. Which I find very entertaining and educational. Please continue.
When I said that is difficult for the modern person to comprehend the piety of a medieval person, I was being polite -- and deliberately vague -- in response to a comment from Dsimon.
It's been my experience that there is a tendency among modern people to believe that people in historical era thought and acted just like us. They didn't. In many cases, their thought patterns were horribly alien to us. I argued with a woman once about the famous Spartan mothers' admonition, "Come back with your shield, or on it." She insisted no mother would ever say that. She couldn't fathom the context of the times and clung to the notion that her 20th Century (this was '97) Middle Class American viewpoint was universal.
In the same way, I would venture the generalization that for the medieval mind, the existence of God was a given. Individual expressions of piety, such as prayer, or church attendance, or entering the religious life, may have differed, but their society was not secular.
But, I digress. Still I think it is important for readers to be wary of "provicialism" and attribute modern mores to historical persons. As you said, we must read the primary sources and other material and try to place ourselves in their shoes.
8/06/2010 8:24pm, #173
I'm going to use those three very important words, "I don't know."
I don't have access to all my books on the Viking Era right now, but I don't believe I have much on the Jomsvikings specifically. I will have to look into this further and get back to you.
The "rules" I've seen attributed to the Jomsvikings are definitely regulating living conditions, how much they directly relate to fighting is an unknown. They do seem to have imposed some discipline upon the band.
8/06/2010 9:36pm, #174
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
- STL, MO
Kid, didn't go through the whole thread to see if you mentioned them, but it seemed like you forgot the Dahomey Amazons from Africa.
as for this...
So, should a practitioner of martial arts adhere to any sort of code of chivalry or behavior or work to defend what is right, just, and good, or should we simply learn how to attack, kill, maim, and slay without any regard for other people so that we can take what we want and be happy that no one can take it from us?
But I think there's two little things that stops the bolded part dead in its
1. Laws, which will have your ass in jail faster than you can say "what?" if you kill/maim/slay
2. Guns, I think Guns pretty much erased the notion of "no one can take it from us".
Last edited by Metsudragon; 8/06/2010 9:41pm at .
8/07/2010 4:16am, #175
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
8/07/2010 4:52am, #176
8/07/2010 5:13am, #177
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
That's off topic, and Fritz the Great was a fag soooooo NEXT! :P
Besides: „Östlich der Elbe beginnt die asiatische Steppe" in the words of the wise Adenauer
8/07/2010 5:22am, #178
8/07/2010 8:47am, #179
Whilst I guess this has been a semi serious discussion, why is in the investigations forum ?"To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
8/07/2010 12:04pm, #180
So Rabbit cannot crap it up.
But, yeah, I am fully in it.
Semantical pre-definitions, so we are sure everyone talks about the same thing?