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  1. bigstu31s is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2010 3:15am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    For the same reason people wear blue gi to training, for ceremonial events and wear kohaku or aka obi with blue gi, they either don't know or don't care or don't know and don't care about traditional Japanese colour aesthetics and symbolism and their importance in Judo.
    I'm not sure I follow you. Wearing a red Belt isn't a choice its what the BJA decided to award 6th kyu's. Are saying that the BJA don't know and don't care about traditional Japanese colour aesthetics and symbolism and their importance in Judo?
  2. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/04/2010 4:39am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigstu31s View Post
    I'm not sure I follow you. Wearing a red Belt isn't a choice its what the BJA decided to award 6th kyu's.
    I, personally, didn't wear one and neither did anyone else at my club. Because it's retarded.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigstu31s View Post
    Are saying that the BJA don't know and don't care about traditional Japanese colour aesthetics and symbolism and their importance in Judo?
    Precisely what he's saying.
  3. jordijitsu is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2010 6:18am

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     Style: Jujitsu

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    Good write up, like it. I wonder if you'd like to expand into the formation of organised Judo in the UK?

    Originally Posted by judoka_uk
    For the same reason people wear blue gi to training, for ceremonial events and wear kohaku or aka obi with blue gi, they either don't know or don't care or don't know and don't care about traditional Japanese colour aesthetics and symbolism and their importance in Judo.

    Blue Gi's were introduced not out of disrespect or lack of understanding (though many feel this to be the case), more for clarity in competition for the TV - not unlike the outfits worn by cricketers these days. If you're a regular competitor you'll also note the wearing of an identifying belt for your "corner" - used to be red for one competitor and white for the other. Nothing to do with history, all to do with sport.

    As for why novices now wear red belts? Some have suggested it's because the student learns in full circle, starting out at red and eventually one day finishing with red... Well that's one version anyway:-/ As for the official line? Don't know right now, but I'll find out.
    ps Apol's for my crap layout! Noobs eh!??!
  4. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2010 7:04am


     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Damn forgot to put the bit about what it was a reply to, was having an OT convo about Judo ranks with Larus Marinus and others in this thread:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...t=98672&page=3
    and so started a new one where we could discuss it properly and others could join in if they wanted as well.

    Great Stuff. Thank You.
  5. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/04/2010 7:22am

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigstu31s View Post
    Are saying that the BJA don't know and don't care about traditional Japanese colour aesthetics and symbolism and their importance in Judo?
    That is what I meant yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by jordijitsu View Post
    Good write up, like it. I wonder if you'd like to expand into the formation of organised Judo in the UK?
    I'm afraid I haven't really done much research into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jordijitsu View Post
    Blue Gi's were introduced not out of disrespect or lack of understanding (though many feel this to be the case), more for clarity in competition for the TV - not unlike the outfits worn by cricketers these days. If you're a regular competitor you'll also note the wearing of an identifying belt for your "corner" - used to be red for one competitor and white for the other. Nothing to do with history, all to do with sport.

    As for why novices now wear red belts? Some have suggested it's because the student learns in full circle, starting out at red and eventually one day finishing with red... Well that's one version anyway:-/ As for the official line? Don't know right now, but I'll find out.
    ps Apol's for my crap layout! Noobs eh!??!
    I would argue that introducing them to to boost TV audiences indicates both a lack of understanding and a lack of respect for the aesthectics and colour symbolism.

    Some have suggested that is the case for red belts for beginners, but if they have then they themselves or the people they have heard it from have decided that will be the case, it has no basis in Japanese tradition. Also in all honesty how many people will achieve a 9th or 10th dan, hardly any so it seems pointless to try and establish such a cycle.
  6. jordijitsu is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2010 8:02am

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     Style: Jujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As it happens - I agree with you; if I recall (& happy to be corrected) the French introduced the blue gi - to much cries of outrage - and it's use has now been adopted at many levels. But only the BJA (WJA SJA etc) use the red belt? Well I've finally got my head around all the rule changes (banned hand/leg attacks etc) and the changes in the syllabus and grade structure, but this red belt thing bugged me.
    So, I've just spoken to a senior Judoka who tells me the red belt was put in place to give Mon grades a stepping stone onto the Kyu grade syllabus and avoid "belt colour ambiguity" when transitioning from junior to senior.

    Umm, right. Ok.
    Well if this's the reason I can understand the thought behind having a "different" belt to step into other than white (though I don't agree it should be a red belt). Still, to further clarity on this I've just come off the phone with one of the UK's [Judo Association] office managers who in turn is going to ask the same question to their Head of Development.

    When I have a response - so will you guys.
  7. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    8/04/2010 10:01am

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     Style: 柔道

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Also thanks to DCS for correcting me, via PM, about the early Japanese Judoka in France. Abe Ichiro, of course, didn't arrive in France until the 1950s, I can't remember the name I originally intended to write but DCS informs me that Aida Hikoichi and Ishiguro Keishichi were the key figures at the time.
    Jita kyohei

    Quote Originally Posted by Larus marinus
    So, do the martial arts that use the Dan-Kyu system generally have ten Dan ranks (I *think* that most of them do) basically because Judo decided to use ten Dan ranks following Kano's death?
    The standarization process done by the Dai Nippon Butokukai in the late 19th and early 20th centuries played an important role, also.
  8. Gibbon is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/04/2010 1:50pm


     Style: Judo noob, BJJ uber noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In the BJA they haven't totally done away with white belts since you still have to grade to get to red belt. The first bunch of techniques is for novice (i.e. white belt) -> 6th kyu (red). Anyway, you pretty much have to wear a white belt to start with because that's what all the gis come with.
    My instructor now grades people to red, but I think that's because he seems to just pick up the syllabus on the day and say, "Oh look, you're now a red belt".
  9. bigstu31s is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2010 4:49am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [QUOTE=PointyShinyBurn;2421014]I, personally, didn't wear one and neither did anyone else at my club. Because it's retarded.
    QUOTE]

    When I was awarded my Red my instructor told everyone at the club that someone was dressed incorrectly and then told me to take off my white belt and put the red belt on. Do you honestly think that I, as a Judo noob, should then lecture my instructor and refuse to wear it? I think that would show a lot of disrespect not only to him but to Judo.

    In most other MA's yellow is always the first belt you receive so I agree getting a red does seem a bit of a strange choice.
  10. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/05/2010 6:53am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigstu31s View Post
    When I was awarded my Red my instructor told everyone at the club that someone was dressed incorrectly and then told me to take off my white belt and put the red belt on. Do you honestly think that I, as a Judo noob, should then lecture my instructor and refuse to wear it? I think that would show a lot of disrespect not only to him but to Judo.
    No, that would be pretty horrendously socially awkward. However, just because it's not convenient to point out that something is stupid doesn't make it any less stupid. My coaches referred to 6th Kyu as the 'official white belt', thank Christ.
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