[Mercurius]

Does anyone here have the lowdown on these two arts? I thought since there were some JKD folks here, that this might be a good place to ask.

What I want to know is, what are the differences and similarities? Is non-classical WC Lee's reduction of(or addition to?) traditional WC? Is Jun Fan Gung Fu a different name for this, or the same plus additions from his studies in other KF styles?

Even if you can just point me towards a website with the information, any help is appreciated.

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And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Freddy]

Lee's original Jun Fan JKD is more combat oriented. In my opinion JKD under Dan Inosantos was disaterous. Dan Inosantos had his own vision of JKD but never evolved it further. He could have but didnt. If only if Inosantos added more grappling to JKD and continued to make the art more well rounded it would be a superb art. Inosantos knows Philipino dumog wrestling and a few other martial arts but never incorporated into JKD. Its a real shame.
AT least Lee recognize the need of grappling and learnt some wrestling and judo and jujitsu but his sudden death left the art in its infancy stage.
Jun Fa is not wing chun. Wing chun and a number of other techniques from different systems were added to make JKD i.e. like boxing, Savate etc. Lee used quite alot of wing chuns hand techniques with those of boxing, He exemted certain aspects of wing chun like forms etc but kept and alter more useful aspects like wooden dummy trainning etc.
People get the impression that JKD is all kung fu derived. This isnt the case. JKD consist of both western and eastern arts and whatever he could get his hands on. What is uselful is what counts.

PEACE!

[Boffo]

Inosanto knows nothing about grappling?

How do you explain the black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu he got a couple years back? Not bad for a guy in his 60s!

[Boffo]

Doing some quick research on Inosanto, I found the following in about 15 minutes:

Inosanto incorporated Savate and Muay Thai into his training sometime in the 1980s. He also started taking BJJ sometime in the middle 1990s and got his black belt from the Muchados in 2000. He works with and invites over the Dog Brothers.

From a quick glance, it sounds like he has really rounded his training and increased the number of techniques he can use. Sounds like a very open minded guy who does his research. An admirable trait in a guy who is obviously humble enough to search beyond his own martial art for answers.

Freddy, may I suggest you do research on people before you start writing about them?

Edited by - Boffo on November 14 2002 04:08:21

[jeff_lindqvist]

Hi Boffo,

What Freddy really said is that Dan Inosanto is well versed in Dumog wrestling but that he doesn't incorporate it into the JKD training. Freddy didn't say that Dan Inosanto knew nothing about grappling.

As for Inosantos choice for not incorporating Dumog (or whatever other grappling arts he knows), I don't know. Maybe it doesn't "fit" JKD's built-in structure?

BTW, as far as I know, there are two main branches of JKD, right? One sticking closely to the techniques that Bruce Lee taught, and one sticking to the concepts/principles of JKD (thus possibly developing the "art").

[bludhall]

Ahhh Freddy, you conmtradict yourself.
First you claim that Inosanto changing it made it less combat ready then you complain that he didn't add enough.

Frankly I am more confused by the whole notion of a traditionl JKD, is that a lesson in confusion or what?
Its a modern ecclectic art, whining about the good old traditional days when it was more combat ready is dopey to say the least.
What you really want is some SHOTOKAN buddy, then you can cling to the way others did it becasue they did it and thats the way we will do it.

For you information the machado jiujitsu clan has been closely associated with Paulo Vunak and the Dogbrothers for quite a while, BJJ is most certainly one of the group of JKD incorporated arts.
So really what you are saying is not particularly accurate.
Also its Jeet Kune Do, if you JKD doesn't have any grappling in it and you want it, put it in.
maybe you need to see game of death a few more times :) or enter the dragon

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!

[Mr. Donkeypenis]

There are two main schools of thought regarding JKD, concepts (Inosanto) and Original (Nucleus).

JKD concepts is basically another name for crosstraining. They believe in having no particular method and training in as much as possible in different things.

JKD Original believes in JKD as a style (many refer to it as Jun Fan) and adhering to the techniques developed by Lee for JKD.

In actuality, both types have some merit as to what they say. JKD concepts was something that Lee developed toward the end of his life after much of his study of philosophy while he ws bedwritten.

He wanted to stop all of the closedmindedness of the martial arts and had even said that he wished he had never invented the "ultimate" stlye of JKD because all his students wanted him to find the truth for them instead of doing it themselves which is the only way you can.

JKD was orignally a hybrid style of many techniques from Wing chun to Boxing to Fencing and more. He used the best techniques for the right job and if something was impractical, he chucked it the Hell out. He also took on all comers in streetfights and proved it.

To compare the two, Wing Chun contains concepts and techniques that are best used in close range yet not in the clinch (trapping range) and ideally should be used very agressively for it to be effective.

Jun Fan is similar to Wing Chun except that it looks a lot more like kickboxing with Wing Chun traps and emphasising lead leg/hand moves. It is more based on principals of economy of motion and simplicity for defending and attacking the opponent.

Overall, it really depends on who is teaching you more than anything else.

A.K.A MEAT

[Freddy]

Boffo-first of all where did you get your info. from?
Blundhall- your an idiot. What contradiction? Someone could change and art and reduce its effectiveness. To give you two examples: judo and aikido. How effective are those arts compare to their mother art?
Further more I NEVER said JKD DOESNT have grappling. Have you even trained under Dan Inosantos JKD? Many have legitimate criticism that it reverted into a form of kick boxing. Many JKD students have split off and formed there own versions of JKD. I wonder why?

PEACE!

[JKDChick]

We're PFS JKD Concepts, under one of Dan's students, Paul Vunak. We incorporate both Dumog and BJJ into our classes. The first armbar I ever saw was from Kali, which Dan added to the art. JKD would already be dead if not for Dan.

"I'm not tense; just terribly, terribly alert."

[Freddy]

I think BJJ and Dumog are terrific add on to JKD. Perhaps Dan would have been the best choice as heir of JKD due to Lee's untimely death.
Paul Vunak is pretty good.

PEACE!