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  1. Southpaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2010 10:48am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmmm...you might be right?

    I defer to Chainpunch of Tom Kagan as they actually know what they are talking about.
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2010 12:33pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PizDoff View Post
    I want to remind y'all that this is in the style forums, which is moderated on on topic posts. This is not a trolling thread.



    I

    I think it's a lop sau where mixed martial arts superstar Jake Shields pushes down on Jason "Mayhem" Miller's arm to clear the way for his right hand.
    Yes, and Like I said it isn't chun IMO. Do you need pics? The other guy is using a move that is reminiscent of snake boxing.

    The Lop Sau you refer to is actually at an angle of one of the two man sets of Xingyi. Yes, I can provide pictures of both. Heck, I'm certain that move exists in tiger, Dragon, and southern mantis.
  3. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2010 2:13pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's not enough functional techniques in Wing Chun to justify it being a Martial Art in its own right. However, there are a lot of decent ones in it that could be incorporated into a striking game.

    This doesn't include Tan Sau. That's only useful for shrugging off a seatbelt when you get out of a car, or carrying a pizza up the driveway.
  4. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2010 2:24pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Yes, and Like I said it isn't chun IMO. Do you need pics? The other guy is using a move that is reminiscent of snake boxing.

    The Lop Sau you refer to is actually at an angle of one of the two man sets of Xingyi. Yes, I can provide pictures of both. Heck, I'm certain that move exists in tiger, Dragon, and southern mantis.
    Wasn't sure why you were talking to, so I ignored you earlier :D

    I don't have experience with those arts, so please I'd love to see pictures as I'm always for learning. If you could reference the people in the photo more specifically that would help as well.
    Last edited by PizDoff; 7/27/2010 2:28pm at . Reason: grammah
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  5. nomamao is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2010 10:00pm


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    lol. That pressing hand exists in almost any southern style. Why anyone would think it's just theirs is beyond me. Wasn't this also the idea behind the bare knuckle boxers as well, with one hand being the "feeler" and the other one doing all the damage; in an age before the jab, that's what you went with, right?

    Sorta?

    But, yeah, I don't know why anyone would think these guys are using WC because I've never seen a WC guy hold his chambered hand up THAT high.
  6. chainpunch is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/30/2010 10:46am

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      Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lop Sao means grabbing hand. Purpose, direction, power, and end results are not implied.
    Pak Sao means slapping hand. Purpose, direction, power, and end results are not implied.

    Some WC people believe there is only one way to slap and grab and others think you vary the techniques based on desire and need. I come from the school of the latter where Wing Chun is an abstract art that must be learnt to fit the individual, not to become a non-thinking robot.

    People who look at moves and say "this looks like WC and that does not" are really just adjusted to seeing WC performed in a vacuum tube of an environment. The big name promoters of WC are really bent on fighting against themselves rather than seriously proving anything to outsiders.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/30/2010 11:12am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by chainpunch View Post
    People who look at moves and say "this looks like WC and that does not" are really just adjusted to seeing WC performed in a vacuum tube of an environment. The big name promoters of WC are really bent on fighting against themselves rather than seriously proving anything to outsiders.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    "

    Most Martial Artists look for their techniques in sparring, competition, street fights etc etc etc. The whole "for ourselves" **** is what got all the drama started for kung fu regardless of style.
    Too bad they don't realize old school CMA was all about proving itself to outsiders.
  8. mrmanic123 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/30/2010 11:22am


     Style: TheChun, Xingyi, Chow Gar

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by chainpunch View Post
    Lop Sao means grabbing hand. Purpose, direction, power, and end results are not implied.
    Pak Sao means slapping hand. Purpose, direction, power, and end results are not implied.

    Some WC people believe there is only one way to slap and grab and others think you vary the techniques based on desire and need. I come from the school of the latter where Wing Chun is an abstract art that must be learnt to fit the individual, not to become a non-thinking robot.

    People who look at moves and say "this looks like WC and that does not" are really just adjusted to seeing WC performed in a vacuum tube of an environment. The big name promoters of WC are really bent on fighting against themselves rather than seriously proving anything to outsiders.
    Wing chun is like xingyi but it contains 3 fists. boang tan and fook. If it uses one of the 3 lines of force then it is wing chun. otherwise it is not wing chun or you have reached the non classical stage of training where you are training a more personal system.
  9. ArtOfDefense is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/30/2010 12:17pm


     Style: Bayless Freestyle JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PizDoff View Post
    I want to remind y'all that this is in the style forums, which is moderated on on topic posts. This is not a trolling thread.



    I don't think you can make that distinction from the picture.

    Pak Sau (slapping hand) - Can be administered straight forward to force back, or force the opponent's centreline away from yours. Or to block punches (though Wing Chun I've seen teaches using pak sau to block the wrong way in my opinion. ie From orthodox stance

    Lop Sau (compressing or lowering hand) - Is more the idea of sticking to something, pushing into, down, or diagonally down to gain the centreline.

    I think it's a lop sau where mixed martial arts superstar Jake Shields pushes down on Jason "Mayhem" Miller's arm to clear the way for his right hand.



    Easy way to remember is lop sau sets up the da (hit) with the rear hand, pak sau traps with the rear and strike with the lead. I use pak sau on guys who cover up on the jab, and lop sau on guys who leave their lead hand too far away from their face. Overhand right is a good strike from there, personally I'm partial to the backfist/back elbow from there.
  10. chainpunch is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/30/2010 3:14pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
      Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mrmanic123 View Post
    Wing chun is like xingyi but it contains 3 fists. boang tan and fook. If it uses one of the 3 lines of force then it is wing chun. otherwise it is not wing chun or you have reached the non classical stage of training where you are training a more personal system.
    I don't understand your post but I think its one that puts Wing Chun in a small box. A really small one. This thread is discussing pak or lop and you mentioned 3 hands of which two are not used in application two much by the average student, not well anyways. Pak and lop are easy to learn compared to bong yet people still don't know why to choose them (evidence on this thread). From your brief post one may think tan, bong, and fook are the only three hands and the others are not wc enough. I have heard of sifus being dismissive of parry type moves in favor of bridging hands. To me it just shows how little they know of how our hands work. Its very short sighted to think you can fight everyone using a method few subscribe to.


    Quote Originally Posted by ArtOfDefense View Post
    Easy way to remember is lop sau sets up the da (hit) with the rear hand, pak sau traps with the rear and strike with the lead. I use pak sau on guys who cover up on the jab, and lop sau on guys who leave their lead hand too far away from their face. Overhand right is a good strike from there, personally I'm partial to the backfist/back elbow from there.
    Not true at all. You can lop from just about any position where there is something to grab.

    WC is such a disputed style about nothing can be agreed on.

    OP , just from the picture alone a room full of chunners could not agree on what is going on. Without video we can't see intent and I am pretty sure the guy is not thing WC even if it were to look remotely familiar.
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