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  1. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    Posted On:
    7/24/2010 9:18am

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Grip failure on deadlifts

    So,

    Over the last year or so, I've been rehabbing bicep tendinitis and a slap tear of the labrum on my left side. On the right, I seem to have similar, but undiagnosed, injuries.

    I've attended physical therapy, had cortizone injections, tried platelet rich plasma injections and done more physical therapy. I'm trying desperately to avoid surgery, but I'm meeting with a surgeon in the next several weeks to get second opinions. The first surgeon I met with examined me for 20 minutes and then started talking about severing tendons and six weeks in a sling.

    Anyway, I haven't been grappling or training MA at all.

    Instead I started getting more serious about lifting.

    I've been unable to do any pushing motions really, but I think I may be able to start doing a modified bench press with the shoulder. Here's my current routine:

    Squat: 5x5 at 245
    Deadlift: 5x5 at 265
    Bent over barbell row: 5x5 165
    Single arm row: 5x5 85 dumbell

    I'm six foot and I weigh around 187

    And then a bunch of shoulder rehab stuff, maybe some turkish get ups.

    So here's what's happening now, these exercises don't hurt my shoulders, they actually seem to help. But I'm having a problem now with grip failure during the deadlifts. And I'm looking for a way around the problem.

    I don't used the modified over/under grip on the deadlifts because of my biceps tendinitis. My palms face my knees.

    For those of you who've had the same problem, did you wait for your grip to catch up, or did you supplement with grip-specific training?

    I'm thinking of investing in some grippers. I'm only interested in being able to lift as much as my hand can hold. I don't want to use straps or something like that.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  2. Kickapoo is offline
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    Sick double leg.

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    Posted On:
    7/24/2010 11:47am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Emevas and others swear by Captains of Crush.

    I'd say go for the grippers. They'll help lifting and in grappling.
  3. MMAMickey is offline
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    POWERRR!

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    Posted On:
    7/24/2010 11:57am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    captains of crush definitely.. I've had a quantifiable increase in grip strength since using them.

    also, chalk does wonders by removing the problem of sweat
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
    Spoiler:

  4. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    7/24/2010 9:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Get these

    http://ironmind-store.com/Strong-Eno...ductinfo/1239/

    They are the greatest straps on the planet, and a helluva deal. You can go double overhand on all of your deadlifts to take tension off of your biceps and not lose any deads.

    As for benching around a shoulder injury, consider board presses. You'll still generate chest, shoulder and tricep strength, without placing a lot of stress on the shoulder.

    Edit: I just read that you don't want to use straps. Why?
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  5. RobG is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2010 1:53am


     Style: casual

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I second the post above.

    Even basic straps can allow for better use of big body parts...and the grippers are a fine supplement to actual grip strength.

    IF you choose to limit your dead lift to your grip strength - which varies widely - you will never really hit hard the potential of dead lifts.

    About 20 years ago - I knew a guy who had a local dead lift record. His 'nickname' was Danny dead lift.

    He trained with basic straps - kind of things one can get at GNC stores.

    But - try as he did - he could never get his grip strength up enough to handle his dead lift strength.

    When I was younger- I could shrug and partial dead lift about 750 for reps...with basic straps. ( I did partials because I busted my 3rd lumbar in a fall - was crippled and unable to walk for a month or so - at the age of 9 - over a year of braces and re-hab...did not want to risk too much for a full dead lift)

    Could not even get that weight out of the racks, but for one or two - by using my grip strength alone.

    Look - everyone figures out the things that work for them - but, we must always be clear on WTF we are attempting to achieve.

    NO one size fits all.

    I hope you will look into the grippers and straps and even dead hangs off an over head bar with weight attached - if/when your shoulders heal.

    There are many ways of making the training fit you. Takes time and personal experimentation..always does.

    Wish you well in your training.
  6. HereBeADragon is offline

    Senior Member

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    Inland Empire, California
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2010 2:27pm


     Style: Limalama, Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As a grip stength fan (and hobbyist) I understand his aversion to lifting straps. When I use to deadlift I never used straps. I think the heaviest I went was around 550lbs. I also used single handed, suitcase and finger deadlifts. There is no reason you can't get impressive numbers in the deadlift without straps but it does take more time and effort. I suppose it comes down to goals.
  7. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2010 3:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a fan of grip strength too, and I've taken 550 for a ride without straps as well, but I still don't understand the aversion. If you're training the deadlift as a grip exercise, then maybe I can understand, but if you're actually using a deadlift for its intended purpose of building whole body strength, it's foolish to allow your grip to be your limiting factor, ESPECIALLY if you have some sort of injury.

    Powerlifters use straps in training, as do Strongmen, and they still manage fantastic numbers. Don't discard a potentially valuable tool for the sake of your mind, just understand what straps do and train your grip along with your deadlift.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  8. JP is offline
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    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    2,290

    Posted On:
    7/25/2010 3:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey guys.

    Thank you for all the really helpful replies.

    The reason for my aversion to straps is that, at this point, I don't really feel like I should be using them. I mean, 265 isn't that heavy and I've finished the set of 5x5 before. I've also failed out of it and had to leave the set unfinished.

    I am not intending the deadlift to be a grip-training exercise. I've been using it to strengthen my posterior chain, particularly lower back and my lower back pain has faded almost entirely since I started getting serious about them.

    But I have no problem with straps, I just don't want to stunt my grip strength by using aids like straps too early in my weight training. I'm looking to build overall strength, something I know deadlifts are good for. My grip is part of that whole equation.

    I mean, did any of you start using straps at a weight like 265? I intend to start training my grip anyway and I'll sit at this weight until my grip catches up which is has in the past.

    But it's not that I have a problem with straps. That being said, I do feel like I'm able to deadlift more than my grip is currently allowing me. So perhaps it's time to invest in some straps and get into grippers. I'll let you know.

    At the moment, I'm going to give a couple more work-outs and if I can't pull this weight, then I'll look into the straps.

    Which grippers would you recommend I start with? I know you've got to treat these more like weights than some goofy little gripper you can buy in a kung fu store.

    Thank you very much all.

    Emevas, I'm looking at the board press videos on youtube. Is there one that you think explains it better than any of the others? I suppose you're suggesting it because it limits the range of motion of the bench, yes?
    Last edited by JP; 7/25/2010 4:02pm at .
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
  9. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2010 4:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Again, just use straps and grippers, and you'll be able to deadlift AND improve your grip strength.

    Which part of the board press is confusing you exactly? Just like you've mentioned, it's a limited range bench press, which should limit torque on the shoulder.

    Edit: As for what gripper to get, start with the trainer, and evaluate from there.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  10. JP is offline
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    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

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    2,290

    Posted On:
    7/25/2010 4:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Again, just use straps and grippers, and you'll be able to deadlift AND improve your grip strength.
    Alright. Sounds like a plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Which part of the board press is confusing you exactly? Just like you've mentioned, it's a limited range bench press, which should limit torque on the shoulder.
    I was just checking with you to make sure I wasn't missing anything obvious. I am very new to this after all and I'm learning as I go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Edit: As for what gripper to get, start with the trainer, and evaluate from there.
    Cool. Thanks again, Emevas.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
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