Qi,Chi,Ki, or whatever else it may be called

[Become Void]

What is wrong with the perception that qi/ki/chi is simply an old term for summoned strength/power/force using the combination of mind, body, and 'spirit' (as in ferocity, not religious terms)? Using science to explain it seems to be redundant, using religion seems a personal choice. This is how it was once explained to me.

[wonko221]

=
When you argue on the internet do you use your fists?
How do you type?

very, very large keyboard.

and pardon his typos, but the backspace key is a bit of a reach.

as i understand ki in aikido and judo, it is not about summoning mystical reserves of energy nor about interrupting the same in your opponent. physiologically, there are efficient ways to get your body to work well to accomplish your goals.

You have more balance and leverage when you get various parts of your body to work in concert; you also gain more effect by joining with an opponent's motion and energy than by opposing it. When you block their motion you prompt reflexive defensive reactions, but when you join with them their reflexes don't kick in as readily, and you can take advantage of this to take their balance.

[wonko221]

No, it's the ability to realize that Gods existence or non-existence has precisely fuckall to do with science.

i'd agree that science doesn't address whether or not god exists. The definition of "god" can be so ambiguous as to be impossible to pin down and address directly.

But believers in any god rarely have a vested interest in only being allowed to believe in god's existence. They often want to incorporate moral and metaphysical beliefs that CAN be challenged by hard and/or social sciences. Seeing god as the creator of life and/or matter and the imposer of law starts getting into debatable subjects.

The hubble telescope has helped demonstrate that all of creation was not "intended" by a creator who elevated man above the rest of creation. That would be like landscaping the entire planet so that your dog is happy in your backyard. Instead of being the center of creation, we're rotating around a puny star in an extreme arm of an insignificant galaxy amongst perhaps hundreds of millions of others.

If people want to gather and discuss morality and myth in their own small groups, more power to them. But when they want to use this as a stance from which to inform public policy, from school boards to legislation, they shouldn't get to hide behind the "ineffable nature of god" (not to say Kintanon is or does do this, but it's not uncommon amongst the religious).

[helmutlvx]

What is wrong with the perception that qi/ki/chi is simply an old term for summoned strength/power/force using the combination of mind, body, and 'spirit' (as in ferocity, not religious terms)? Using science to explain it seems to be redundant, using religion seems a personal choice. This is how it was once explained to me.

Ironically enough, my sensei was talking about ki/chi/whatever today during training.

And that's basically what he said. He also mentioned something about how the Okinawan people were not very well-educated, so that's how they chose to describe the fruits of training.

Sounded a little racist to me, but I don't give a **** about this topic at all. This whole thread is a retread (No offense to you, Void, buddy.) and it doesn't really matter.

We all should go do some push-ups instead and leave this **** to assholes with Philosophy PhDs. In fact, I'm going to do some right after I hit the post button.

[Quikfeet509]

Just saw this the other day and thought I would post it for fun:


Nat Neurosci. 2010 Jul;13(7):883-8. Epub 2010 May 30.

Adenosine A1 receptors mediate local anti-nociceptive effects of acupuncture.
Goldman N, Chen M, Fujita T, Xu Q, Peng W, Liu W, Jensen TK, Pei Y, Wang F, Han X, Chen JF, Schnermann J, Takano T, Bekar L, Tieu K, Nedergaard M.

Center for Translational Neuromedicine, University of Rochester Medical Center, Rochester, New York, USA.

Abstract
Acupuncture is an invasive procedure commonly used to relieve pain. Acupuncture is practiced worldwide, despite difficulties in reconciling its principles with evidence-based medicine. We found that adenosine, a neuromodulator with anti-nociceptive properties, was released during acupuncture in mice and that its anti-nociceptive actions required adenosine A1 receptor expression. Direct injection of an adenosine A1 receptor agonist replicated the analgesic effect of acupuncture. Inhibition of enzymes involved in adenosine degradation potentiated the acupuncture-elicited increase in adenosine, as well as its anti-nociceptive effect. These observations indicate that adenosine mediates the effects of acupuncture and that interfering with adenosine metabolism may prolong the clinical benefit of acupuncture.

[HereBeADragon]

So people are actually paid to stick pins in mice and publish a paper about it?

[Craigypooh]

Stick pins in them, grow ears on them, make them glow in the dark - you name it, someone is probably doing to a mouse somewhere and getting paid.

[HereBeADragon]

A glow in the dark mouse would make an awesome pet.

[Craigypooh]

What colour would you like?

[tideliar]

That Nature Neuroscience article was quite roundly disparaged after it was published. The paper resided on fairly tenuous science, and using the term acupuncture adds too much unnecessary connotations.

I can re-read it and discuss it more if any one if interested.

I'm very surprised that chose to publish it like that too. I interviewed at NatNeuro a couple of years ago. The Editor is a very sensible scientist with s solid publishing career. Then again, during my interview I also criticized a couple of papers they published because it smacked of journalism - doing it for the impact, rather than the science.