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  1. nmorse is offline

    Featherweight

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    Aug 2009
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    Oklahoma
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    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 4:55pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Boxing/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    San Shou Takedowns

    So I'm currently laid up with pancreatitis (have been for two solid months) and I'm pretty sure I'm going to miss the entire san shou season this year. Of course that just means that I can add more techniques to my arsenal for next year rather than working the few takedowns I know repetitively when I get well.

    I know there are several people on here who've fought san shou on here and I'm hoping I can draw on your experience. I'd love to know what the highest percentage throws and takedowns were for you and what you used to set them up.

    The rules I'll be fighting under are here.

    The takedowns I know and practice are osoto gari, a single leg where you thread one arm across their upper chest and push while pulling up on one leg (no idea what it's called), both front and back suplexes, and some front sweeps and reaps that I'm not very confident I can do with a grip using boxing gloves.

    I'm hoping to add some variety of double leg as I think I could slip into one from a boxing slip pretty easily (maybe morote gari?). I'm not sure if I'll be able to add a hip throw as I understand they take a lot of work to get right and I can't add a stand up grappling art to my schedule as it is.

    Another thing is that most of my standup grappling experience is done in collar and elbow or pummeling for double underhooks. If you have any drills for working takedowns from other positions I would love to hear them.

    I'd also love suggestions for books and DVD's. For instance, does anyone know if No Holds Barred Takedowns by Mark Hatmaker is any good (I can get it cheap at the local Hastings)? I'm also look at getting Cung Le's dvd on san shou takedowns and I'd like to know if anyone has an opinion on it.

    To sum up I'd love ideas for throws and takedowns that meet the following two criteria:
    1. Must be able to be done in boxing gloves.
    2. My knees can't hit the ground first.

    Thanks for helping an idiot noob.
  2. Water is offline

    Featherweight

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    Dec 2009
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    Them Netherlands
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    49

    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 5:11pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Striking/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  3. Diesel_tke is offline
    Diesel_tke's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Pensacola, FL
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    4,002

    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 9:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have Fedor's MMA book and it has some really good takedowns in there. It is all for no-gi which is pretty good for San Shou because the nogi principle is mostly finding other holds in stead of gripping the gi. It translates well to San Shou. I worked the scissor sweep to death, but can never pull it off in sparring. Hip throws work well for me. Double legs are good too, but you will want to work penetration steps a lot.

    I would say, do **** loads of penetration steps. It helps a lot in getting low and on the inside quick.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  4. strikistanian is offline

    Registered Member

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    Oct 2007
    Location
    Boston, Massachusetts
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    484

    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 11:27pm


     Style: Boxing/Sanda/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In my opinion, the stuff that works best in San Shou is takedowns off of kick-catches, double legs, and hip throws in that order.

    I'll try to post in greater detail regarding the kick catch stuff when I have a bit more time. As for the rest...

    Practice getting good at timing people' punches and shooting under them. It's the same idea for shooting in MMA -- distract with punches to set up your takedown or just shoot under their punches. Also, nowadays in San Shou, you're allowed a third point of contact, so you can actually drop a knee if you want with your shots.

    As for hip throws, keep in mind that you can do headlock hip throws with less risk to yourself than you would, in say, a sport where there's ground fighting. It doesn't matter if you land in a shitty position on the ground (so long as you don't get reversed within a second), so these a perfectly viable and pretty easy. If it was Sanda, I'd recommend setting up hip throws with knees to the legs and body. That works really well for distracting them.

    More tomorrow...
  5. nmorse is offline

    Featherweight

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    Aug 2009
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    Oklahoma
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    33

    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 11:32pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Boxing/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That cung le video is great. If the video quality on his dvd's is better I'll probably buy his takedowns dvd.

    I'll definitely drill a lot of penetration steps and work on shooting under punches.

    I can throw knees to the thighs and body so I may start looking at hip throws. How in particular do you set up a hip throw with those?

    Thanks, guys, keep 'em rolling.
  6. Shiningwolf is offline

    Registered Member

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    Dec 2008
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
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    187

    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 11:40pm


     Style: San Shou, MT, & No-Gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    YouTube- San Shou Sanda Kung Fu Kickboxing 散手 www.kungfu.net

    Here is a video that demonstrates several throws in San Shou (as well some striking combinations).

    Personally though, i've had a lot of success in San Shou sparring with foot sweeps, you might want to look into those.

    Another word of advice is when you throw, ALWAYS try to end with you standing and them on their ass. When you do a throw (lets say a hip throw) and you land on the ground on top of them, its not considered as "clean" of a takedown and depending on the judge they will deduct points.
  7. MMAMickey is offline
    MMAMickey's Avatar

    POWERRR!

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    England
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    Posted On:
    7/22/2010 5:23am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the morote gari where you end up in guard is better for sanshou than a standard double leg where you end in side control because its fast, you can remain standing and there is no groundwork under your ruleset.

    upper body throws worked well for me, hip throws I've found harder to pull off.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
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