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  1. Killbot is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2010 3:51pm


     Style: BJJ & MMA, Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by helmutlvx View Post
    I will be going to Mr. Davis' school today and possibly throughout the week to make observations for the report.

    I'll let you all know what happened later on.
    If they give you hell, call me. We'll storm.
  2. helmutlvx is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2010 6:50pm


     Style: In transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    All right, fellas. I'm back.

    And whoo boy. It was quite different from what I expected. Let's start off.

    I entered the school before one of their "Martial Arts Exercise" classes. I was greeted by a group of about 11-12 shy females and 2 less shy males and introduced myself to Mr. Davis.

    He was thin, almost lanky, wore a green button-up shirt and glasses. He spoke very eloquently and answered all of my questions with whatever details he could provide, I also spent about an hour talking with one of his associates and a black belt ranked under his system, John Mann about the school and he held a lot of insights.

    I have reading material regarding the schedule of classes, the types of programs provided, and a schedule of rankings that refers to syllabi for the appropriate course.

    I saw the "chair from that one bar" and it looked to me like an office chair and was not in a state of disrepair, I did not get a chance to see Mr. Davis teach, but I will be watching his Shorin-ryu karate and Judo/Jujitsu class on this coming Friday.

    Mr. Davis was kind enough to bring out his various certificates (many of which are from the ASMA) so that I could photograph them. In my haste, I forgot to bring a proper camera and had to make due with my iPhone. A lot of the pictures came out blurry.

    I'm going to need to do some more research into Mr. Davis teachers and the ASMA, but I have a start on where to look.

    note: I heard Gene Thorner described as an "incredible Judo player" and a "not-so-incredible striker"

    Oh yeah, Mr. Davis stated to me that his Judo rank isn't recognized by USJA or USJI (he couldn't remember which) because Gene Thorner didn't process his paperwork before they cut professional ties. He also stated he was a 2-dan in Judo.

    In the Judo class on Friday he also stated that they will be doing ne-waza, osae-komi and some various drills, so I'll have to get a feel for how those are supposed to look beforehand.

    Anyway, I will update again after I see the classes.
  3. Killbot is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/14/2010 7:31am


     Style: BJJ & MMA, Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks helmutlvx! I'm being pretty tongue-in-cheek about all this, mostly cause its internetz. But I am looking forward to your review. Pay close attention to the newaza stuff for me and let me know. Appriciate your efforts! :)
  4. dragonsfall is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2010 12:46pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: mma/thai/pai lum/etc.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well what would you like to know about Mr. Davis? I can tell you from reading the "spread" sheet you posted on him that half of it's false. I've met the man a few times over the years, and it's been a long time since that. I came up through Pai lum in the area myself and he was mentioned and I met him a few times. When I was coming up through every once and awhile we would go up to Motown to go to his class and we would never spar and he would always be doing forms or some 3 step crap of the most unrealistic kind. I've to hear of him yet ever sparring or anyone seeing him spar. And that was 17 years ago almost. He would bring some of his students down to our school every once and awhile and they wouldn't spar, be winded after the first warm ups and complain a great deal. But I don't blame the students, I blame the teacher for that. Anyways, traditional arts in the area has died a great bit over the years and more modern aspects have come in. If your looking for place in the fairmont area I can recommend a few. I know the guys at Morgantown MMA, will is a good guy.
    I trained for a good period of time at Team Outlaw in fairmont and they have a great bunch of guys if your down in that area. (15 min. south of motown)
  5. helmutlvx is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2010 4:24pm


     Style: In transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As far as I can tell, there is no Bullshido at Mr. Davis' school. Maybe some McDojo tendencies, but I've seen his certificates and they were from either Mr. Gene Thorner (who I will be investigating) and the various teachers of the ASMA (who I am also actively investigating)

    If any of those parties hold illegitimate ranks, that would mean Mr. Davis' ranks are false by association. However, that research has not been completed yet. My badly-taken photos will be included in my final write-up.
  6. helmutlvx is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/17/2010 8:33pm


     Style: In transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just returned from observing the Shorin-ryu and Judo sessions.

    I found the Judo class to be a solid introductory Judo session that used kesa-gatame and its variations exclusively as osae-komi, ukemi (I think that's what y'all judoka call breakfalls) were satisfactory compared to my own training and there was some grip fighting that I also found satisfactory. (Time ran out before a full randori could be done.)

    The Shorin-ryu group was, honestly, less than spectacular. Mr. Davis himself is competent in the techniques and is teaching appropriate kata (He also showed me some Naihanchi which I felt was satisfactory and I saw Taikyoku and Heian being practiced before class) but his students, especially the 3-kyu and 2-kyu did not show technique comparable to their rank. I also saw very little to no kime in the movements.

    This perceived awkwardness could possibly be attributed to my being there, considering their dojo has few visitors. However, I do not believe such an excuse to be a satisfactory reason for such mistakes as loose hands and protruding thumbs during a knife strike or not using the hips to create penetration on a front kick.

    Mr. Davis remarked to me that he was aware of this awkwardness, but expressed fondness of the group and did, in fact, make pointers and fix mistakes during the classes.

    He did not sit during the training sessions and was actively viewing his students.

    My ultimate conclusion is that pending further investigation into Mr. Davis' teachers, he is not Bullshido.
  7. Dogtrainer is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2010 9:52am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by helmutlvx View Post
    I just returned from observing the Shorin-ryu and Judo sessions.

    I found the Judo class to be a solid introductory Judo session that used kesa-gatame and its variations exclusively as osae-komi, ukemi (I think that's what y'all judoka call breakfalls) were satisfactory compared to my own training and there was some grip fighting that I also found satisfactory. (Time ran out before a full randori could be done.)

    The Shorin-ryu group was, honestly, less than spectacular. Mr. Davis himself is competent in the techniques and is teaching appropriate kata (He also showed me some Naihanchi which I felt was satisfactory and I saw Taikyoku and Heian being practiced before class) but his students, especially the 3-kyu and 2-kyu did not show technique comparable to their rank. I also saw very little to no kime in the movements.

    This perceived awkwardness could possibly be attributed to my being there, considering their dojo has few visitors. However, I do not believe such an excuse to be a satisfactory reason for such mistakes as loose hands and protruding thumbs during a knife strike or not using the hips to create penetration on a front kick.

    Mr. Davis remarked to me that he was aware of this awkwardness, but expressed fondness of the group and did, in fact, make pointers and fix mistakes during the classes.

    He did not sit during the training sessions and was actively viewing his students.

    My ultimate conclusion is that pending further investigation into Mr. Davis' teachers, he is not Bullshido.
    did davis dress for class? did he have someone else there teaching alongside him (like sensei will or sensei john)? judo is always basic, and never anything beyond that. there is also never randori.

    shorin ryu / kitae ryu was always weird. he teaches thrust kicks wrong with this strange higher than needed knee thing and had everyone take their hips out of everything. we rarely got to move and do techniques and we never got to hit anything. i still dont understand why there was never sparring.

    it sounds like he put on a act for you.
  8. helmutlvx is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2010 10:15am


     Style: In transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    John was there for Judo but not for Shorin-ryu. (Note: Kitae-ryu is a renaming of Gyaku-Nami-Do)

    Mr. Davis didn't wear a gi, no. As far as him putting on an act, I can't say for sure. I can only go by my observations.
  9. Dogtrainer is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2010 10:48am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by helmutlvx View Post
    John was there for Judo but not for Shorin-ryu. (Note: Kitae-ryu is a renaming of Gyaku-Nami-Do)

    Mr. Davis didn't wear a gi, no. As far as him putting on an act, I can't say for sure. I can only go by my observations.
    sensei john always made things more fun. he's awesome! if we weren't up to the point where we could do something competently he would let us practice on him until we were okay. we would actually get to throw people and break a sweat. sensei will was always fun too but he was an aikido guy. unfortunately all the cool instructors were there rarely or left i think.

    when davis teaches judo its always this thing of entering 9 times and then load but not throw on the tenth. that got boring very fast. that and we never got to finish anything he always left out some piece that made things work. we also went over too many basic things for me to absorb quickly when i started and never really got to practice any of them. i would have liked to have spent a half hour doing one thing. grappling only happened once a week and it wasn't enough to learn anything in that hour.

    from what youve said it looks like you let davis know who you were and what you were doing. that would have made him change what he does. can someone go check him out without letting davis know what they are doing?

    i cant wait to see what you find out about davis instructors. i never got to see his certificates i didn't even know they existed.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/18/2010 11:02am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Seriously? Are you complaining when he decided to help your investigation out?
    Quit trying to taint his observations, with your complaints, and wait until he puts up a final review.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 9/18/2010 11:05am at .
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