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  1. wonko221 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Sep 2009
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    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 5:48pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    Honestly, I'll probably stop working the uki waza when it stops working for me.
    Uchimata is still one of my major throws (particularly, my main upper-body contact throw), though it hasn't been scoring too well on any of my partners as of late.
    i was helping a buddy learn to shoot. He had no experience with firearms, and was joining the local police academy, so he wanted some range time and advice so that he wouldn't be a complete noob when time came to handle weapons in his coursework.

    Well, he got to where he was grouping fairly well, but was reliably about two inches above the target at about 20 feet. After a few magazines of this, with no visible change, he was shooting dead-on and excited about it.

    Ii asked him if he was simply aiming 2 inches low, and he admitted it, proud of having "figured it out". I explained to him that as the target moves nearer or further away his shooting would fail him. In other words, aiming to miss "because it works so far" was not as good a solution as learning to better control shot placement.

    After correcting his tendency to "push" the pistol in anticipation of the discharge, he started placing his shots right where he wanted them.

    I use the analogy to point out that you've been stuck at a plateau, and you're excited because you've learned a short cut to feel some momentary pleasure in what you perceive as success. Your uki waza will likely start failing you because a) your opponents are bound to wise up; and, b) while they're learning to handle sloppy sacrifices you ARE NOT LEARNING JUDO, but simply a lazy throw that likely works only on surprise and without solid kuzushi or control. At which point, you're going to sit back down on your plateau.

    Plateauing sucks. I've been there many a time. Work with your instructors and fellow students to find a single thing that you need to correct. Work on that until you've improved or are too frustrated. Then find another thing to focus on. You'll break through your wall and end up a better judoka on the other side.

    If you keep relying on sloppy technique, you'll at best fail to improve, and at worst injure someone. And you've dismissively shut down Coach Josh who, from all i've read, is someone we're lucky to have sharing Judo insights with us.

    That being said, 4th edition DOES suck. But paizo's Pathfinder is pretty badass so far.
  2. shelbydeth is offline

    Registered Member

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    Nov 2007
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    Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
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    790

    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 6:33pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    You keep your dirty 4th edition rules to yourself.
    Hear, hear!
  3. wizwar31 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jan 2010
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    CA
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    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 6:41pm


     Style: Judo, MT, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    because of this thread, i dreamt about judo and it actually gave me some ideas. Hopefully i can try them out next week and be cool once again.
  4. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
    TheMightyMcClaw's Avatar

    MADE OF STEEL!

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    Ann Arbor, MI
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    3,425

    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 8:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wonko221 View Post

    I use the analogy to point out that you've been stuck at a plateau, and you're excited because you've learned a short cut to feel some momentary pleasure in what you perceive as success. Your uki waza will likely start failing you because a) your opponents are bound to wise up; and, b) while they're learning to handle sloppy sacrifices you ARE NOT LEARNING JUDO, but simply a lazy throw that likely works only on surprise and without solid kuzushi or control. At which point, you're going to sit back down on your plateau.

    If you keep relying on sloppy technique, you'll at best fail to improve, and at worst injure someone. And you've dismissively shut down Coach Josh who, from all i've read, is someone we're lucky to have sharing Judo insights with us.
    I take some contention to the point that sutemi waza are inherently "lazy" or "sloppy" and lacking in kuzushi and setup, as the means of breaking said plateau was seeing the kuzushi and setup via de ashi harai. None of my game catches any of my sparring partners "off guard", since I've been fighting against the same dozen or so members of my gym twice a week for close to a year. I don't see from where you're drawing your conclusion that my uki waza is "sloppy", and that learning to throw in combination is "lazy," especially given the above context.


    I'd also like to clarify that I meant no rudeness towards Josh, who's opinion I do respect and generally seems to be a cool guy.
    The fool thinks himself immortal,
    If he hold back from battle;
    But old age will grant him no truce,
    Even if spears spare him.
  5. Coach Josh is offline
    Coach Josh's Avatar

    Silent Guardian

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    2,181

    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 9:00pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No offense taken just relaying information that was given to me when I was learning Judo. If you use it or not then it is on you. In a year or so you will make this statement, "I should have listened to what you said."
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  6. wonko221 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Sep 2009
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    76

    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 9:35pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    I take some contention to the point that sutemi waza are inherently "lazy" or "sloppy" and lacking in kuzushi and setup, as the means of breaking said plateau was seeing the kuzushi and setup via de ashi harai. None of my game catches any of my sparring partners "off guard", since I've been fighting against the same dozen or so members of my gym twice a week for close to a year. I don't see from where you're drawing your conclusion that my uki waza is "sloppy", and that learning to throw in combination is "lazy," especially given the above context.


    I'd also like to clarify that I meant no rudeness towards Josh, who's opinion I do respect and generally seems to be a cool guy.
    fair enough. i was being presumptuous in assuming that you'd found a trick in catching folks off guard. But you did say in your initial post that you had built this as a counter, and state here that you are exploiting an opening created thereby; that is good judo.

    i apologize for jumping on your post. Keep slapping the mat!
  7. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
    TheMightyMcClaw's Avatar

    MADE OF STEEL!

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 10:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    No offense taken just relaying information that was given to me when I was learning Judo. If you use it or not then it is on you. In a year or so you will make this statement, "I should have listened to what you said."
    I guess my more pertinent question is this: since I've built a decent opening de ashi harai, what else would you recommend as a follow-up throw? My instincts are to to grab the leg and go for a single or Georgian pick-up, but I'm unclear as to whether these would be legal followups with the new hansokumake rules.
    The fool thinks himself immortal,
    If he hold back from battle;
    But old age will grant him no truce,
    Even if spears spare him.
  8. meat monkey is offline

    Registered Member

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    Deep inside the intestine of a sperm whale
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    Posted On:
    7/21/2010 10:37pm


     Style: Judo, ITF, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My understanding, as limited and humble as it may be, is that as a secondary attack leg grabs are fine, it just cannot be the initial move/throw in a combination.
  9. wonko221 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Sep 2009
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    76

    Posted On:
    7/22/2010 12:50am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When i attempt and fail at de ashi harai, i use uke's recovery step for my combination. As they recover from my attempted sweep, at the moment that their weight is dedicated firmly on that foot, i like to enter for o soto gari. Alternatively, if they recover with a quick back step and begin to advance toward me, i'll often attack with sasae tsuri komi ashi or hiza guruma.
  10. oplus is offline

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    May 2010
    Location
    SF Bay Area
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    120

    Posted On:
    7/22/2010 12:59am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My understanding, as limited and humble as it may be, is that the IJF has suddenly morphed referees into raging idiots and that you should avoid tachi waza leg grabs as much as is humanly possible. Though, meat monkey is right about the current rules in theory.
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