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  1. iopyud is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 7:04am


     Style: MT/Ex-Judo NO SPRAWL?!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Arthritis question: MT and Makiwara

    Short question:

    I heard that makiwara conditioning results to arthritis but heavy bag punching and shin conditioning won't?

    Is this correct? What's the difference?

    Thanks.
  2. MMAMickey is offline
    MMAMickey's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 7:11am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well your shins aren't a joint so they won't become arthiritic.

    your knuckles are a joint that can be damaged. they can be damaged whatever you are hitting if you are bare knuckle. Wear gloves, hit a bag.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
    Spoiler:

  3. iopyud is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 7:12am


     Style: MT/Ex-Judo NO SPRAWL?!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah that's great. Thanks for the info.
  4. Neo Sigma is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 9:30am


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's a lot more give to a heavy bag than there is to a wooden post anchored to a floor or wall. Not too many places for the force to go when you hit a makiwara. Supposedly, "proper" makiwara training won't damage your hands, but I feel like the benefits aren't really worth the risk of doing something very bad to your joints.

    But yeah, hitting anything without any protection will eventually mangle your hands.
  5. helmutlvx is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 9:40am


     Style: In transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Frankly, I would pick a heavy bag and gloves over makiwara. (I try to use both.)

    I went really hard on the makiwara about two weeks ago and my left middle finger knuckle finally felt better just two days ago. It's a very very very gradual process and it's too easy to get arthritic joints.
  6. Mor Sao is online now
    Mor Sao's Avatar

    Nothing for Show, All for use

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 10:20am

    supporting member
     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let me know if you are interested in using Dit Da Jow to help condition your hands.

    You can also use an injury dit da jow to help speed healing of injuries that occur in hard training.







  7. helmutlvx is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 10:24am


     Style: In transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the recommendation

    At my dojo we colloquially refer to it as "jow" and I use it a lot. I used it right after I finished my reps with the left and didn't use any more after that, which was a mistake.

    When I get some extra cash to use, I'm going to get a few bottles to keep in my medicine cabinet.
  8. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 12:36pm

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by iopyud View Post
    Short question:

    I heard that makiwara conditioning results to arthritis but heavy bag punching and shin conditioning won't?

    Is this correct? What's the difference?

    Thanks.
    like people have said.... impaction is the big thing. The thing that "gets ya" is the impaction... Broken fingers also come back to get ya. the bag with gloves is ok, also I take a rice sack, you know one of those hempy looking 5 pound bags you might get at Costco? Fill it up about 3/4 full with various beans, I used an assortment, it does not really matter. Now get duct tape and tape it somewhat tightly, but not supertight... you should be able to push on it a bit and it should give a bit when you push.

    This type of target is what I do. I find that it is the best I have found for impaction issues (the thing gives a bit but not too much) and the thing allows you to hit with good force and condition your hands as you do so with minimum impaction.

    The chinese guys have more elaborate variations on this, marbles, lead shot, etc... Tried em just never really felt like I needed more than my bean bag. I mean when you can hit that thing really hard you can do some serious damage. I know this for a fact as I had a bad accident because I was not paying attention, was hitting it good for a week or so and very gently dinged a student in the ribs with a lunge type hit and cracked his entire rib cage up. Consider that a warning to be careful when you start to hit things hard and well!
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
  9. HereBeADragon is offline

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    Inland Empire, California
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 1:16pm


     Style: Limalama, Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To the OP understand that any type of body hardening training be it IP, striking the makiwara or shin conditioning like in MT can cause nerve and joint damage such as arthritis. Even improper training with a heavy bag can cause damage.

    There are certain precautions you can take to mitigate these risks.

    First off have a teacher who knows what they are doing guide you. Most of the time if someone is injured in this type of training it is because they were doing it on their own. Without proper instruction or supervision.

    Second conditioning. You need to strengthen the area before you try to harden it. If its the hands than you need to build a good base level of hand strength. I recommend John Brookfields "Mastery of Hand Strength" and "The Grip Masters Manual" as a good primer for this goal. Now in addition to strength you also need dexterity and mobility. Before and after hand training I recommend mobility drills for your hands. Sonnon has a whole beginning level movement heath system on youtube including wrists and fingers so thats a good starting point, Intu-Flow. Brookfield also has a hand health system called "Dexterity Ball Training for Hands" That goes a long way to recovery and improving dexterity.

    Third as Dale mentioned a good Dit Da Jow is important. Use it before and after training if you can. Also be sure to get some good jow. It should smell very strong and be very dark, its possible to brew your own if you know what your doing. I just purchased an assort of herbs from the website Dale mentioned for that very purpose.

    Different methods are used in jow application. Some people just rub it on the area being trained. Some methods call for heating it and soaking your hands in the jow. In my own training I massage it into my hands but when I have a large enough supply I wouldn't mind soaking my hands as well.

    Lastly take it slow! Remember that the key to success is incramental progression. If you injure yourself then your back to square one so don't go out and try to snap the makiwara in half the first day you hit it. Good luck.
  10. shorinjite is offline

    Featherweight

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    Jun 2010
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    venice florida
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 1:23pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: shorinji

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the one thing that a makiwara does well is it allows the practitioner to actually see their impact. Because it does not give, stopping the movement on impact of the flat surface means you can see how your form is (correct/incorrect). Almost all injury comes from bad form when striking, I will agree strongly with the other posts that due to the lack of give hard strikes while still learning how to hit correctly will cause damage so start out slow and proper then work your way up in strength and power. However, I would gladly take a few dings while hitting a flat board over suffering a badly broken hand caused by screwing up and hitting something harder like a forehead with bad technique.
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