No water for you!

**MorningLemon** · Posted On: 7/15/2010 7:59am

Originally Posted by honesty

Its some bullshit hard man crap. It seems to be one of those things that can be prevalent in martial arts. In my view I pay these people to train me in martial arts, not to deprive me of water or try and get all macho on me. If I want to drink water I will, and they are beyond stupid to not allow me to.

I can understand not wanting people to be swigging away all the time if you find its affecting the class (though I personally think this is a bit bollocks as well) so if thats the case they definitely should have water breaks.

It really comes down to the fact that a lot of martial arts teachers see themselves as imparters of special knowledge and it is some privilege for us for them to be allowing us to learn from them. What they actually are are providers of a service to consumers. If they just got that in mind this type of crap would never fly.

See I agree with this view point, we ARE paying so to an extent we have some rights. But if they allowed water breaks there wouldn't be a problem.

Hi mate, I hope you're doing well up in Sydney, it's still cold here in the ACT.

Anyway, I'm guessing you're training with Roots yeah?

Where abouts are you located (Sydney wise) ?

Yeah it was Roots, Bondi Junction, I got the Roots recommendation off a Korean guy my orignal coach trained (Roots has gyms in Seol) I'm actually down in Melbourne now, this event actually took place a while ago, but it came up in conversation at my gym and everyone thought it was some crazy bullshit. So I was curious was the Bullshido community thought about it.

Trick is to put my sportbag at a strategic place, so I can reach it fast and without disturbing the class. Also because I drink a lot of small quantities from an easy-access-bottle it takes only 3-5 seconds to my bottle, drink and return.

This is what I have always done, but there wasn't any room near the mats at this place, they went all the way up to the wall and nearly to the entrance. So, I left it in the changing space, which was only about 10 feet away.

**Vorpal** · Posted On: 7/15/2010 8:50am

If an instructor restricts frequent water breaks because they are a distraction to the entire class it's reasonable. To restrict any water consumption at all, specifically if it's an attempt to "toughen up", is absurd. In hot climates during extended intense workouts it's potentially dangerous.

**TheMightyMcClaw** · Posted On: 7/15/2010 10:01am

It's funny, my judo coach is the other way around; since Michigan hit it's full summer heat and humidity, he's been reminding us to rehydrate - grab water before class, after class, between rolls.
It's probably because he's a good instructor instead of a jackass.

**raylawley** · Posted On: 7/15/2010 10:16am

Wow, that's full on. Where I train it's much more relaxed; people have the common sense (most of the time) to not do anything too loud or distracting during a demonstration of technique or while the coach is talking; but other than that it's more a club atmosphere than a military one.

It's expected that everyone have this kind of self-discipline, but it is SELF discipline, not the enforced kind.

I don't think rigid rules and respect/salutation hierarchies are necessary if everyone has common sense and respect. If anything, the "Sensei" stuff and talking to different ranked people different ways, the water break, nobody-leave-the-mats stuff has the opposite effect.

Respect is best brought about by not demanding it, in my opinion.

**MrGalt** · Posted On: 7/15/2010 10:33am

Originally Posted by Zendokan

Japan is a complete different mentallity than Belgium.
Here's more a relaxed self-discipline attitude than being under a disciplined environment.
I have to say that Judo is the most restricted, but you can drink between randori and between drills, so my sportbag is strategally placed besides the part of the tatami where I train, so that I have plenty of time between changing partners to drink without slowing down the classes for one second.

The gross part is there are three water coolers...and three cups. And about thirty people in class. What you think happens there is exactly what happens. Needless to say I go without and hit up the Pocari Sweat machine after class.

I occasionally sprint for a bathroom break during one of the drinking breaks though. Nobody gives me a hard time for being a few seconds late coming back in.

Also people frequently join class whenever they can get there even if they missed the bow-in. You just step onto the mat in the back and stretch/warm up alone and then when you want to join the class you sit down. The instructor will call your name and invite you in at the next break between drills/rounds/techniques. That's a concession to karate students being real people with other things to do I have NEVER seen in all the American dojos I've been to. Admittedly there was a little too much LARP in some of the places I've been.

**Uncle Skippy** · Posted On: 7/15/2010 12:39pm

Denying water is asinine, no matter what the reason.

If the body is thirsty, it is time to drink. If you deny it that refueling, something is going to get injured little by little.

**Iainkelt** · Posted On: 7/15/2010 12:46pm

Originally Posted by Uncle Skippy

Denying water is asinine, no matter what the reason.

If the body is thirsty, it is time to drink. If you deny it that refueling, something is going to get injured little by little.

Agreed. That is why we have started to see a shift in mindset even in the most macho of sports, like football. I remember when denying water breaks was seen as a way to "toughen up" kids and get them in shape. What a load of crap.

I understand that instructors/coaches don't want people randomly wandering in and out of class on a whim to hang out by the water fountain. Doubly so if it's a kids class and they are trying to maintain some kind of order. But none of that changes the fact that dehydration is a serious issue and not to be fooled around with.

**KO'd N DOA** · Posted On: 7/15/2010 1:48pm

my JJJ was like that back in the olden days. You did not drink on the mats, nor did you leave unless a) told to or b) about to hurl but that has relaxed recently, and breaks are regular and predictable, so waiting 5 minutes extra is not big deal.

Unfortunaltly I had heat exhaustion because of that policy back in the day after 3 days of training at a course.

What a shock my BJJ was, people coming and going, no bowing, and rehydration after every natural pause in training. Funny thing was people still were able to learn.

**crappler** · Posted On: 7/15/2010 3:06pm

When Patton was training the army down in the Mojave they tried to wean people off of water. They found out pretty quickly that doesn't work. Now the army FORCES you to hydrate. Unless there is no other place to train, I wouldn't go there. It's just ignorant to do that. If you can't go anywhere else, you should go into class with a quart in your stomach, and be prepared to hold your piss. Also not recommended.

You wouldn't drive your car without oil, why would you train without water?

**Rids** · Posted On: 7/15/2010 5:32pm

I train judo in Australia and we have 2-3 water breaks during class, and during randori time if you're not on the mat you are free to drink.
Our sensei has mentioned that when he was younger (he's in his 50s) they often weren't allowed to drink during class, and that today we know this is just stupid.

We are in Queensland which can be quite a bit hotter than Sydney, but even in winter we have water breaks.