Posted On:7/16/2010 11:43pm
I'm very much a noob at both, so take this with a shaker full of salt, but I've gotten a few throws against bjj guys at my school who take that posture using hiza guruma.
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Posted On:7/17/2010 12:44am
Style: Kodokan Judo
Hiza Guruma is a definite possibility. The "Russian" Osoto Gari and over the back grip type situations can work as well. The issue is, those sorts of things are not exactly beginners Judo, and are pretty easy to counter if done at the wrong time/situation.
Like Josh is suggesting, Kouchi Gari is a good option. Low chance of getting countered if you miss as it is a low commitment throw, and if they react to get away, it sets up other throws. If it works, it is easy to transition to ne waza with low risk of getting caught in guard.
There is a whole series of over the back/belt grab throws that work together depending on how uke reacts. Mark Tripp has gone over them before, I think. But they are not necessarily techniques you can pull off without a lot of practice.
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Posted On:7/17/2010 1:31am
Style: TKD, BJJ
I'll say, as a jits guy I have had ZERO luck getting an over the back belt grip. There are a bunch of sweeps and stuff from butterfly guard that recommend it, and I can NEVER maintain position and control when trying to get that grip, so it's not something you'll just decide to do one day and have it work. It's going to take some dedication to figuring out how you need to move, where you need to grip, and how to set it up. Probably even more so standing. I think all of us BJJers could benefit from a year or so of solid Judo and I wish my jits school had a Judo blackbelt at it...
Posted On:7/17/2010 3:17am
Not all judo black belts would know how to work the over the back/belt grip, but learning a solid years worth of basics would be a good start.
I didn't get any skill at over the back grips standing or in ne waza until I had been doing Judo for maybe 10 years, already a black belt. I found Kashiwazaki's book "Fighting Judo" (this was before YouTube) and Okano's Judo book in my sensei's library. I worked at the various hikkomi gaeshi/obi tori gaeshi entries/techniques for several years and got pretty good at them. For a while that was kind of my specialty on the ground. They are not easy to do well, that's for sure.
Posted On:7/19/2010 11:22pm
A good attack to deal with this posture is a front headlock te-guruma.
Start by cross gripping with your left hand to his left lapel. Pull him down by his lapel to break his posture even further down then step forward and reach with your right arm to put him in a front headlock. I'm unsure on BJJ rules so if that's not allowed slide your right arm down and grip his right lapel without applying pressure to the head.
Now at this point he might shoot a double/single leg. You might actually want that since you can very easily stuff him and end up in a position to take his back. If he shoots, use your control on his head to sprawl backwards but keep your weight and pressure on his head. Once your opponent commits to a shoot you want to make sure to drag him down. If you have control of his head you should end up in a sprawl in front of him in turtle position so you can move to take his back.
If he doesn't shoot we move to the te-guruma. Once we've secured the head step forward with your left leg and grab his right leg with your left hand (the one not holding his head). Press forward, pulling the leg up and pressing down on his head. This should drive your opponent to the mat and you should end up in side control.You don't need or want amplitude, just ot basically push him backwards and onto his back.
I used to use this in judo comps sometimes. Usually wouldn't get a score but would often secure a pin for the win. It's very hard to get away from once you secure the head so give it a shot.
Posted On:7/20/2010 1:08pm
Originally Posted by maofas
Yeah, people are always recommending that Russian osoto on Bullshido, but I just don't get it. Whenever I try it I wind up getting countered, or a stuff my own attempt since that position seems to be the exact opposite of what I want for osoto (i.e. their back bent backwards). I have much better luck with classical-y and hop-in osoto. Maybe one day...
My best throw is sumi gaeshi/hikkikomi gaeshi. I was taught the Russian osoto as the second part of a combination that starts with hikkikomi. Uke pulls back from the hikkikomi so I swing my hooked leg around and hop forward, pressing on his belt this time instead of pulling. At the same time I throw my upper body forward and into the crook of his shoulder.
The third throw in the combo is soto makikomi.
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