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  1. serey is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2010 9:56pm


     Style: Freestyle Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Katsunori Kikuno stance

    his stance is sanchin dachi of the karate variation.

    here it is modified for mma


    can anyone who is familiar with the stance explain the use of this stance and the advantages from the traditional stances we are accustom too. he said that it expand his mobility and field of vision i believe.
    what do you think of the footwork? I dont really follow jmma but his stance was intriguing and exciting to watch.
  2. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/12/2010 11:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    IMO it's really not sanchin dachi if his foot position is so vastly different, because that's kind-of the point of the stance, to be equally stable from all sides. As far as I know, that stance is just for kata/kihon, but Shotokan isn't big on Sanchin, so I'll defer to someone who does Goju or Kyokushin on that.

    From the waist down it looks exactly like jiyu dachi, the same general stance I use for fighting. It's good for explosive shifts forward to cover distance due to the raised rear foot (think sprinter in the starting blocks). Above the waist, however, he's totally square instead of being bladed. I would think that + his wide guard is to lure people into sending shots straight down the pipe, except Kikuno is not much of a counterpuncher at all.

    If I had to take a wild guess, he mixed a karate stance with a more square MT stance (giving him more rotation/power on his lead hand) and added his own personal flair on top. I don't think his wide wavey guard & exposed face serves any tactical purpose beyond intimidation, but I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

    P.S. Kikuno rocks.
    Last edited by maofas; 7/12/2010 11:20pm at .
  3. helmutlvx is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2010 11:53pm


     Style: In transition

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, it's not sanchin-dachi or even hangetsu-dachi. Normally that would have an addendum to the tune of "as far as I can tell", but from the very nice reference picture it's easy to tell the stance is different.

    The hallmark of sanchin-dachi is feet at about 30 to 45 degrees and knees turned inward, which isn't being shown in the picture.

    I think maofas is right that's it's more for explosion and distance covering, but his knees aren't bent enough for it to be something as exaggerated as zenkutsu-dachi.

    edit: Even though it's a clip reel, there's some good examples of how he uses that stance to close the gap in this video.

    YouTube- Katsunori Kikuno - I'll Be The Best - A Tribute
    Last edited by helmutlvx; 7/12/2010 11:59pm at .
  4. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 8:46am

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     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rewatched a couple of his fights. I never noticed him using the push-off motion till now, but it's there, usually right after stepping down from a kick. He gets really flatfooted sometimes though...

    And in the process of watching, something else though, that I've never noticed about him; Kikuno actually uses ball-of-the-foot round kick to his opponent's body. Wild!

    Someone needs to report every video of him on the internet for copyright infringement ASAP before people start using him as justification for their shitty ball-of-the-foot kick they've never actually swung hard at a target!

    P.S. FYI, zenkutsu dachi is nothing but a stylized version of how your weight shifts forward on a punch. No one would (should?) ever actually use that as a fighting stance, it's "landing gear" if I can steal a term I like from Rob Redmond.
    Last edited by maofas; 7/13/2010 8:51am at .
  5. Craig Jenkins is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 9:05am


     Style: Uechi Ryu, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He's Very flatfooted. And very upright. He seems to rely a lot on leaning back at the waist, away from a punch, to make distance. I don't know much about kyokushin, but I agree with you guys, clearly not sanchin.

    The ball of foot as striking surface on the round kick - certainly looks effective when he does it.

    Wide wavy guard - inviting attack to the centerline / shutting off hooks / round kick? I agree, it's away from neutral, so it must be conscious.
  6. henshinx is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 9:50am


     Style: Enshin Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ive seen one other person use the ball of the foot as an effective striking surface and he was trained in shotokan. I figured that maybe that was the way other karate styles liked to kick, was I wrong in assuming that?
  7. Craig Jenkins is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 10:06am


     Style: Uechi Ryu, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We actually use the toe fist (sokusen), though round kicks generally are shin.
  8. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 10:19am

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     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by henshinx View Post
    Ive seen one other person use the ball of the foot as an effective striking surface and he was trained in shotokan. I figured that maybe that was the way other karate styles liked to kick, was I wrong in assuming that?
    It depends. A lot of the old-school Shotokan guys like Enoeda used ball, but most people just can't bend their toes that far back and not all of them spend their time actually hitting a heavy bag to know that they can't can't. My head instructor could do it, but he was literally the only person in the dojo who could.

    Most people in Shotokan that hit objects/people use their instep. I switched to shin for body somewhere around 2000 because catching elbows on your foot when the person covers up sucks, but instep for head, then a few years ago switched to shin for everything. I still land with my instep though often when people move back away from the kick or if I stretch to reach someone significantly taller than me in the head.
  9. Craig Jenkins is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 1:36pm


     Style: Uechi Ryu, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by maofas View Post
    catching elbows on your foot when the person covers up sucks
    Absolutely. Not much better hitting a shin with your toes, I assure you.

    I agree, instep gains you a little distance. Striking with the ball of the foot / toe fist gives you a way to hook the round kick around behind a block that might otherwise stop a kick with the toes/ball of the foot. Not without tradeoffs of course.
  10. henshinx is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 2:29pm


     Style: Enshin Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by maofas View Post
    It depends. A lot of the old-school Shotokan guys like Enoeda used ball, but most people just can't bend their toes that far back and not all of them spend their time actually hitting a heavy bag to know that they can't can't. My head instructor could do it, but he was literally the only person in the dojo who could.

    Most people in Shotokan that hit objects/people use their instep. I switched to shin for body somewhere around 2000 because catching elbows on your foot when the person covers up sucks, but instep for head, then a few years ago switched to shin for everything. I still land with my instep though often when people move back away from the kick or if I stretch to reach someone significantly taller than me in the head.
    that makes sense, the guy I was referring to was really old school. He had trained in shotokan back in romania he must have been in his late 40's. I asked him once what belt he had in shotokan (he always wore a white one during kyokushin class) he just made a gesture with his hands to say really high. He had crazy accurate kicks I remember him leaving a red mark in the shape of a Josoku on someones arm.
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