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  1. danno is offline
    danno's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2010 12:14am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by henno View Post
    ...Hardly what I would call "good Jiu Jitsu". More like super defensive Jiu Jitsu.

    ...I can't understand all the support for a guy who does nothing but have a reactive game to an aggressive player. Blue may not have succeeded with his take down attempts, but it takes balls to go for a turning style throw in a BJJ comp. It has a high risk/reward, but props to blue for having a crack.

    I'm probably coming down on white because I have a bit of this attitude in Judo class. I've got pretty decent base and tend to stuff their take downs to set up my own. While this works pretty well for me, I'm trying to develop a more attacking game from the feet and take the initiative. I think it is a more noble approach.
    Quote Originally Posted by chingythingy View Post
    Agree some of those rules are absolutely retarded. They should not award the "lay-n-pray defensive warrior", but encourage taking offensive risks. ****, BJJ is boring as **** enough to watch without encouraging the development of dumbasses whose greatest position is the turtle.
    just my thoughts on this.

    i'm not so interested in what is a more "noble" approach or more fun to watch in the context of competition. in my opinion, if you can submit or positionally dominate someone, you win. you had the better strategy, and i think the better jits.

    in a self defense situation, i think it's also important to take the same approach, and only use our best gameplan and highest percentage techniques, and avoid using things which will put us in a worse position should they fail.

    but while training, i think it's often better to have to former approach. it's here that we need to experiment and fail to facilitate learning.

    but believe me, i get just as pissed as anyone else when someone gets a point up on me and just stalls to win. but i have to admit that they beat me, and the onus is on me not to let that happen again. i also tend to focus on submissions more than anything else during matches.
  2. henno is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2010 1:08am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks danno, that would be good. I'm going to have to bulk up back to the 85's.
  3. Kintanon is offline
    Kintanon's Avatar

    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Athens, Ga
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2010 8:46am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks to everyone on here, but I actually think that Henno's insight into the rules has been the most useful. Regardless of the way points SHOULD be awarded in a perfect world, he seems to have the best grasp of how they ARE awarded. My confusion initially came because this particular situation sits so close to places where points ARE awarded. So I've seen points awarded for what I thought was the exact same thing, however it appears that this situation does indeed only warrant an advantage, and since that ref wasn't giving out advantages for some reason it makes sense that the match ended as it did. I still think it's a bad scoring rule when you can be under side control for most of the fight after accomplishing nothing with your takedown attempts and win, but I understand how it ended up that way.

    Again, my buddy needs to be more aggressive so that this **** doesn't happen. Thanks Henno.
  4. henno is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2010 4:24pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No problem Kintanon.

    You may have noticed I joined this site a while back with very few posts. I only bothered to join this thread because I saw everyone jumping on a bandwagon that I wasn't sure was heading the right way. There was a post that went against the grain (gmanau?). This thread got pulled (not sure why, dissenting view?) but I agreed with it's general position. I think it was a good lesson in using your own critical faculties and not automatically following the pack.

    Either way, I agree that the whole process got us looking closer at the rules and hopefully has led to a greater understanding of them, however imperfect they are.
  5. cherok is offline

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    Atlanta, GA
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    Posted On:
    8/08/2010 9:14pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    sure am glad i found this thread :) let me say right off the bat... reffing is tough and is not an enviable position for sure and this is a perfect example of why!

    henno's first post and analysis is spot on! perhaps an explanation in order? why was the guy in white awarded 3-points in the first place? the no-gi rules give points for side control while IBJJF rules give points for passing the guard. as pointed out by henno and corroborated by the video, white did not pass any guard.

    however, after scoring no-gi matches for the previous 8 hours, a mistake was made and a bit of confusion after a very long day. the coach pointed out the mistake and asked the question "where was the pass?" that's all it took! once the question was pondered, it became clear there was never a pass and that the points were awarded in error and correctly reversed. very embarrassing! but it was the right thing to do!

    in all this match is one of the least confusing matches to analyze after the fact. so i'm very surprised that none of the BJJ blackbelts, talking about how "shitty" this ref is, didn't figure it out after post #2... nay, it took a blue belt to set the record straight? wow!

    in all, the guy in black should be lucky... if you ask me, he got one of the most consistent and fair referees one could hope to get!

    btw... the referee is me :ohyea7qh:
  6. danno is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2010 9:56pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cherok View Post
    btw... the referee is me :ohyea7qh:
    thought so ;)

    i never ref matches for this reason. i'd be making mistakes all over the place.

    i'd much rather just get on the mat and try to takedown/sweep/sub the other guy.
  7. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2010 10:01pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cherok View Post

    in all this match is one of the least confusing matches to analyze after the fact. so i'm very surprised that none of the BJJ blackbelts, talking about how "shitty" this ref is, didn't figure it out after post #2... nay, it took a blue belt to set the record straight? wow!
    All well and good but......what BJJ Black Belts?
  8. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2010 11:52pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by henno View Post
    No problem Kintanon.

    You may have noticed I joined this site a while back with very few posts. I only bothered to join this thread because I saw everyone jumping on a bandwagon that I wasn't sure was heading the right way. There was a post that went against the grain (gmanau?). This thread got pulled (not sure why, dissenting view?) but I agreed with it's general position. I think it was a good lesson in using your own critical faculties and not automatically following the pack.

    Either way, I agree that the whole process got us looking closer at the rules and hopefully has led to a greater understanding of them, however imperfect they are.
    I hope to seriously meet you so that I can just beat the crap out of you.
  9. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2010 11:56pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cherok View Post
    sure am glad i found this thread :) let me say right off the bat... reffing is tough and is not an enviable position for sure and this is a perfect example of why!

    henno's first post and analysis is spot on! perhaps an explanation in order? why was the guy in white awarded 3-points in the first place? the no-gi rules give points for side control while IBJJF rules give points for passing the guard. as pointed out by henno and corroborated by the video, white did not pass any guard.

    however, after scoring no-gi matches for the previous 8 hours, a mistake was made and a bit of confusion after a very long day. the coach pointed out the mistake and asked the question "where was the pass?" that's all it took! once the question was pondered, it became clear there was never a pass and that the points were awarded in error and correctly reversed. very embarrassing! but it was the right thing to do!

    in all this match is one of the least confusing matches to analyze after the fact. so i'm very surprised that none of the BJJ blackbelts, talking about how "shitty" this ref is, didn't figure it out after post #2... nay, it took a blue belt to set the record straight? wow!

    in all, the guy in black should be lucky... if you ask me, he got one of the most consistent and fair referees one could hope to get!

    btw... the referee is me :ohyea7qh:
    Seriously referee job sucks. You're still an idiot. You should've given him something for the takedown.
  10. cherok is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2010 9:07am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake;
    All well and good but......what BJJ Black Belts?
    this was sarcasm. given the level of commentary i've seen in this thread, i was sure all the people criticizing were black belts with years of experience. however, the only thing i've seen high-level is the lack of reading and comprehension skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless View Post
    Seriously referee job sucks. You're still an idiot. You should've given him something for the takedown.
    clearly you are a retard... there was never a takedown. i assume since you've made it this far in life you are able to read. head over to the IBJJF site, read the rules and use your years of internet douche-baggery to parse and cram that knowledge in a place large enough to hold it... :thefinger
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