Martial Arts Forms their true purpose?

**DdlR** · Posted On: 7/11/2010 7:46pm

Originally Posted by crappler

Our Western predecessors did not invent forms because they believed, correctly, that the best form of training was practicing the actual techniques while using proper posture and body positioning. They are a relic of an era past, more historical curiosity than useful tool.

Both solo and partner forms were used in combat swordplay and even in boxing for hundreds of years.

**Cybren** · Posted On: 7/11/2010 7:53pm

my assumption is that things like forms (and breaking) were training methods used before modern medical science and training equipment, and aren't really relevant today.

**helmutlvx** · Posted On: 7/11/2010 7:54pm

Originally Posted by Dsimon3387

So sorry that someone has forced you to engage in this thread.... Hope they let you off the hook for the sake of us both as I could live without your ignorance and hostility

edit by the way you study goju yes? would you care to elaborate on where one can see the differnce between Goju and Sho ran Ryu? Might it be in the katas?

Awwww, do you need Mommy to change yer dirty diaper? Go shove an enema bag in your nose, you twat-faced cum dumpster.

Anyway, difference between Goju and Shorin-ryu, eh? (I'm gonna assume you meant Shorin-ryu here.)

Yeah, it's certainly easy to see a differentiation in the styles through kata. Goju has 12 and is similar to Uechi by putting lots of emphasis on Sanchin, Seisan, and Sanseiru. (Of course, it still depends on the school, but those are across the board more in-depth with analysis.)

Shorin has 21 and has stuff like the Taikyoku set and Naihanchi, etc.

However, Shorin comes from Shuri-te which is closer to Shotokan than Goju which comes from Naha-te. It's a little bit softer, a little bit more linear.

I've also never seen a Shorin guy use neko-ashi-dachi in kumite.

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 7/11/2010 8:03pm

Originally Posted by helmutlvx

Awwww, do you need Mommy to change yer dirty diaper? Go shove an enema bag in your nose, you twat-faced cum dumpster.

Anyway, difference between Goju and Shorin-ryu, eh? (I'm gonna assume you meant Shorin-ryu here.)

Yeah, it's certainly easy to see a differentiation in the styles through kata. Goju has 12 and is similar to Uechi by putting lots of emphasis on Sanchin, Seisan, and Sanseiru. (Of course, it still depends on the school, but those are across the board more in-depth with analysis.)

Shorin has 21 and has stuff like the Taikyoku set and Naihanchi, etc.

However, Shorin comes from Shuri-te which is closer to Shotokan than Goju which comes from Naha-te. It's a little bit softer, a little bit more linear.

I've also never seen a Shorin guy use neko-ashi-dachi in kumite.

So then if a teacher wanted to teach each system in order to understand the theory each system uses in the Kumite that teacher might learn such information in the.....kata

And listen loser your own issues about forms aside which put your ignorance on display like a neon sign, why don't you take a nice long walk off a short peir and get fucked on the way down.

Ps I take that back as your your sense of karate history is fucked up... I may be talking to a kid after all....Ok junior go back to school ok? Sho Ran Ryu and Goju are very similar styles and neither is as similar to Shotokan as each other, historically or stylistically... so back to school kid. Let the adults talk now please. :adios:

**nomamao** · Posted On: 7/11/2010 8:07pm

But why the chambered hand, mommy?

**helmutlvx** · Posted On: 7/11/2010 8:12pm

Just because I decided to walk into a loaded question doesn't make me ignorant.

Buying into t3h anci3nt d34dly is the more revealing sign of ignorance. Kata are created, changed, and thrown out all the time.

The human capability for error is also possible in the transmission of kata. Small changes create new "meaning" to the movements and after so many "hundreds" of years, I doubt TMAers in the modern era perform kata exactly like how they were done back then.

You are a shithead for making this thread and beating the **** out of a long dead horse. Your opinions are metaphysical New Age horseshit.

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 7/11/2010 8:13pm

Ok guys:

According to my argument there would not be a direct relationship between forms and fighting I do want that to be understood. You would no more be using a form to fight with than you would pick up a book on boxing to defend against a left hook.

**helmutlvx** · Posted On: 7/11/2010 8:18pm

You stated you don't think kata are/should be used for fighting AND THEN assert that kata contain fighting strategy and accurate psychological responses!

Where and how is this possible? Can you give us any examples?

edit: And before you make a call to the WAAAAAHMBULANCE, I'm doing exactly what you say in your OP. I'm being skeptical. (The juvenile insults are just how I have fun.)

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 7/11/2010 8:21pm

Originally Posted by helmutlvx

Just because I decided to walk into a loaded question doesn't make me ignorant.

Buying into t3h anci3nt d34dly is the more revealing sign of ignorance. Kata are created, changed, and thrown out all the time.

The human capability for error is also possible in the transmission of kata. Small changes create new "meaning" to the movements and after so many "hundreds" of years, I doubt TMAers in the modern era perform kata exactly like how they were done back then.

You are a shithead for making this thread and beating the **** out of a long dead horse. Your opinions are metaphysical New Age horseshit.

no... YOU have hostility and issues about forms. My argument is anything but the conventional understanding of forms... Do you even understand my point?

When did I say that Forms never change? Do books change? does it make books invauable and less immutable that they change?

When did I say that forms are a matter in any way that guarantee less foibles?

You are projecting your own hostility about the subject on my argument.

I know my posts are long but read the fucking argument if you want to respond to it ok?

and, nothing personal but please learn that Shotokan was invented by someone and in fight, in form, and in theory for that matter, it is a departure from Okinawan Karate which is what Yamagushi did.... just saying sheesh! I would hope you would understand this. Goju ryu is a style of Shuri te as is Sho Ran Ryu, the differences between the two (such as the backfist as it is applied in fighting) are on some basic issues more than substantive issues.

**TheMightyMcClaw** · Posted On: 7/11/2010 8:29pm

Originally Posted by Dsimon3387

and so the screed goes.

Guys look.... Look at the issue for a moment from the perspective of the teacher and before we go there... can you name any Japanese are with no forms? I don't think that Aikido or AIkijutsu has forms. But even Kano, quite the Western nfluenced one, quite the intellectual giant, quite th innovator, thought it prudent to incorporate forms into Judo... WHY?

Because he fucking didn't, that's why.
The "kata" in Judo are a wholly different animal than the kata in Karate in or the tao lu in Chinese martial arts.