Martial Arts Forms their true purpose?

**Dargentus** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 12:38pm

Originally Posted by Dsimon3387

Ok guys:

According to my argument there would not be a direct relationship between forms and fighting I do want that to be understood. You would no more be using a form to fight with than you would pick up a book on boxing to defend against a left hook.

Of course you could.

Tori swings left hook;

Uke blocks left hook with book;

Counters with papercut!!!

(actually this counter is hidden in Taikyoku Sono Ich):
'If done correctly....noooo defense'

And Helmutlvx;

I use nekowashi dachi all the time walking down the street. It's the only was to travel.

And as a karateka I refuse to take this thread seriously.

deadhorse:deadhorse

**W. Rabbit** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 12:39pm

Originally Posted by MrGalt

The fact that you think fat turns to lean muscle tells me all I ever need to know about the value of your opinion on physical training.

If you didn't know what I meant by that you're just being a difficult bastard. No I did NOT mean literally as in the myths of fat = muscle, I meant training over time to cut fat mass/increase muscle mass.

Douchebag.

**Lazyeyedhobo** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 12:44pm

If you didn't know what I meant by that you're just being a difficult bastard. No I did NOT mean literally as in the myths of fat = muscle, I meant training over time to cut fat mass/increase muscle mass.

Douchebag.

Lol I get it now. Kata will make you a strong ass ************. Which ones should I learn? :ninja7:

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 12:45pm

Originally Posted by maofas

Oh Dsimon, why why why? This topic is like arguing about religion, no one ever changes the other side's mind and both sides present inaccurate arguments to bolster their case.

good question:

I am at heart an optimist I always have to try and assume the best in human nature and as a teacher try to bring that out. Yes I take my lumps I guess you noticed that haha.

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 12:48pm

Katas definitely help. I do remember some Hapkido forms I had to do that definately trained you to not be afraid to use a low stance, kick consecutively and throw follow up punches.

I think the issue is why you should do Katas over other methods of training?

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 12:50pm

Originally Posted by W. Rabbit

You knew what would happen when you made the OP. I can tell....

:rolleyes:

haha, yeah, see my post to Maofos.

**speedycerviche** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 12:52pm

"I think the issue is why you should do Katas over other methods of training?"

I think having Kata in a art helps with the transmission of certain principals which is great to make sure that the art gets transmitted as a whole.

**W. Rabbit** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 12:53pm

Originally Posted by dwkfym

I think the issue is why you should do Katas over other methods of training?

Agreed! Why are we even talking about kata over anything, or anything over kata. No one is taking kata/form sets out of karate, gong fu, or any other TMA any time soon, no matter how many people think they are worthless. The reason is that people who do practice kata correctly and know their limitations/purposes and aren't misled about that know/see the benefits directly, in their sparring/randori/sanda. It's these little things that make the difference, imho.

Isn't the best martial artist (ideally) going to be the one who covers more bases and trains more comprehensively than the other guys? Having the largest dictionary of attacks/defense, the most versatile training including both equipment as well as empty hand form sets, and sparring against all different manner of opponents in different environments? Hells yeah.

YouTube- like that, its gone

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 12:58pm

Originally Posted by speedycerviche

"a) Okinawan Karate Masters tended to be practical people

b) A lot of modern teachers misunderstand the role and use of kata in Karate. We know this because people actually do believe that forms can teach one how to fight when common sense would say otherwise."

The main problem is that most Karateka now days do not fight and thus have no idea what works and what does not.

YES!!

And... they do not understand how one is supposed to work with the katas.

I think the Booj is really good on this account. The kata is taken and then concepts are pulled out of the form and worked. Each part of the kata is examined for principles that are part of the art, and subtial applications, and historical context.

The result is you get tons of information about what you are trying to train..

But alais many teachers in the Booj think that one literally fights with the Sanchin and Kihon and forms in the schools, this is another big mistake!!! The kata teaches the principles that you pull out and train. Now what you train that is where yu decide how you will hit the bag, the person, how you will spar, etc.

The kata gives you the information in a way so that the information is complete and tells you what to train. For example: You learn about Metsubishi in the last San chin and in the first Kihone. But you have to train it! thats where you get Friendly fire put on the gloves and work with it... the kata shows you the right angle to apply it, the correct footwork, the attitude you need and etc...the kata does this very very efficiently and that is what I am trying to get you guys to see!

If you were to try to individually take each of these elements:the footwork, the technique, the subtlities, the variations... do you think you could do a better job convying them than a form? thats my point

**Dargentus** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 1:05pm

Originally Posted by helmutlvx

Jodan level kicks can be dodged and I've countered kicks at chudan with hiza-geri tons of times.

But that doesn't really matter because no one is changing their minds and this thread is poison.

Yes and yes and yes.

But its a funny kind of poison.