Martial Arts Forms their true purpose?

**speedycerviche** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 7:50am

"I don't even gotta say nothin"

"This stance is in the 1st poomse any TKDer learns. I used to always lol at that one. I asked one TKD instructor I met about it and he said that it was a LOW KICK BLOCK. LOLROFLCOPTER"

Have you never seen a mae geri blocked with gedan barai before?. The technique and the principals are perfectly legit although stylised for the Kata.

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 8:59am

I think he is implying that a good kick will break that arm, and is useless if you aim low enough. (unless you feel like taking more risks)

That second picture is royal-deluxe-gold though. And I can think of all these moves that "gather ki" that might have some physiological aspect to it but is easily defeated by jab/teep

Edit: Actually, moose prob wasn't implying that but true regardless. My apologies if you were, moose.

**speedycerviche** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 9:01am

"I think he is implying that a good kick will break that arm, and is useless if you aim low enough. (unless you feel like taking more risks)"

It is used to block front kicks not round house kicks and it is perfectly fine for doing so.

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 9:07am

It's only going to block a very specific snap kick. All other front kicks are going to go right above/through that. And you sure its not also used to block round or roundish kicks? Bichagi and Dolyochagis? (I don't know what those would be in Japanese) It would make much more sense to use it to deflect some sort of front snap kick than a round kick, but I seem to recall using it all the time to block round kicks in TKD.

**speedycerviche** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 9:15am

"It's only going to block a very specific snap kick. All other front kicks are going to go right above that. And you sure its not also used to block round or roundish kicks? Bichagi and Dolyochagis? (I don't know what those would be in Japanese)"

It is a block that uses the fore arm to block the area around groin to the area around the solar plexus you do not often see front kicks higher then that do you?. Remeber also that this is a stylised version of the block just like all moves in Kata it is stylised. As for blocking roundish kicks that does not sound like a very smart idea IMHO.

**dwkfym** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 9:22am

I think we may be talking about a different block, or its taught completely differently. Blocking a real round kick with that would indeed be stupid, but TKD snap kicks can totally be blocked with a crescent-looking block like that. Otherwise, makes much more sense to block groin shots like you said. In TKD competitions you shouldn't be kicking to the groin so maybe that is why I was once upon a time, taught to use it the way I described.

**MrGalt** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 9:47am

Originally Posted by W. Rabbit

And I have met very powerful gong fu artists who exhibit a SHITLOAD of power when performing forms. The difference between watching a dainty wushu form vs, a powerful set performed by a conditioned fighter is staggering.

Glad to see you sticking around and trying to contribute.

That said, this is the real danger of kata. Everybody seems to just read garbage like this and nod.

Really? A SHITLOAD of power in his forms? As in he punched the AIR with a SHITLOAD of power? He struck dramatic kung fu poses with a SHITLOAD of power? He blocked or evaded SHITLOAD OF POWER-having attacks from SHITLOADEDLY POWERFUL imaginary opponents? Piss off.

**maofas** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 10:01am

Oh Dsimon, why why why? This topic is like arguing about religion, no one ever changes the other side's mind and both sides present inaccurate arguments to bolster their case.

**W. Rabbit** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 10:09am

Originally Posted by MrGalt

Glad to see you sticking around and trying to contribute.

That said, this is the real danger of kata. Everybody seems to just read garbage like this and nod.

Really? A SHITLOAD of power in his forms? As in he punched the AIR with a SHITLOAD of power? He struck dramatic kung fu poses with a SHITLOAD of power? He blocked or evaded SHITLOAD OF POWER-having attacks from SHITLOADEDLY POWERFUL imaginary opponents? Piss off.

Forgive my hyberbole, but it's absolutely true. Power and strength can be developed through forms training.

Punching the air in forms is not meant to be the same as punching a bag or opponent, those should be done as well. Forms training in a vacuum makes a non-fighter (ie pretty wushu)

If you read the whole thread others and I are espousing form sets/kata as a training tool (and an important one), not for learning to fight but for learning techniques in encyclopedic, four dimensional form and then bridging into practical applications. Read the post on Bartjitsu to see a good example that ties nicely into what many CMAs do with forms->drills->sanda.

Some people are COMPARING forms in different martial arts ie TKD vs. gong fu....not sure that's always a good idea...jI don't think it's fair to say all form sets are the same throughout all MAs. Some are going to be better, and some absolutely useless.

Someone also pointed out advanced forms in gong fu and even Judo are NOT FOR COMBAT but for advanced levels of development. Iron Wire in hung ga is a good example. This set involves muscular tension and breathing to enhance combat training already done with other exercises (including progressive resistance sanda with a partner).

**W. Rabbit** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 10:15am

Originally Posted by maofas

Oh Dsimon, why why why? This topic is like arguing about religion, no one ever changes the other side's mind and both sides present inaccurate arguments to bolster their case.

I agree this is a holy war topic (but hey I need to write man). We can help end the holy war by agreeing to see the other's sides POV, or we can go on bashing skulls for Jesus.

I think the point is to help the people who are dismissive and unnecessarily skeptical open their eyes to something many great, masterful martial artists would go to their graves defending, that forms are elemental. Not complete, but fundamental to truly mastering a particular style, and a big part of why we call it "martial arts" and not "martial something else".