7/05/2010 6:03pm, #1
Claims of being a former/current police officer on 'about Sensei' pages? Red flag?
I searched but I was unable to find an older thread specifically talking about this - but mods, please feel free to move/merge this somewhere more appropriate if I've missed where this was previously discussed.
This is something I've seen quite a lot of when browsing for MA schools or following links from YouTube videos or whatever - an instructor/coach/sifu/sensei/etc. will go into great detail on his bio page about his career as a police officer, how many years he was a cop, about how he was on the SWAT team, about how he was involved in drug/human trafficking busts, about how he taught martial arts to the other cops, etc. - often going into more lurid detail about that area of his life than about his actual MA credentials. You guys have probably seen this sort of thing too.
Obviously there's nothing wrong with being a cop/ex-cop and mentioning it on your bio (that's not what I'm trying to say at all) - but I do start to view the guy suspiciously when he's obviously using his status as a current/ex-LEO to imply that he's some sort of hand-to-hand fighting, reality self-defence badass with the deadly and that his stuff is what *everyone* on the force uses.
Now, as far as I'm aware, police officers don't tend to just stand up and bang with criminals on the streets and tend to avoid taking guys head-on unless they have backup - and are nearly always armed and armoured (depending on the country) in some manner, so being a cop doesn't necessarily mean that someone is a 'fighting expert', per se...
If you saw these kind of claims being made, would they make you decide there and then not to bother with the guy? I'm not thinking of any specific examples here at present - but it's something that I've noticed time and time again in my time online. Should they be treated in the same way as 'I was in the armed forces, so I can beat people up with my fists better than the next guy'-type claims?
Also, what do you think about non-specific claims of being a bodyguard to the stars/bouncer/security consultant to company 'X' as proof of MA skills? This is also quite common. Same deal? I suspect so.
(I suspect that I may get quite a few 'well, duh!' responses here - but I think that this is something that needs to be mentioned specifically)
7/05/2010 6:37pm, #2
I think you may be onto something, though at a high level the behavior is not much different from most bullshido seen here.
Every LEO I've known personally (ex or otherwise) has been stand-up, humble, and would never play Braggadocio. There is clearly a contingent among them that does, however.
My point being that one could probably draw a well-founded conclusion equating the personalities of (ex)LEO with people that teach RBSD (bullshido or not): unchecked egos are more likely to teach/profess it, or something like that.
Similarly, a lot of the exposÚs, here, seem to be of teachers of bullshido that also fraudulently claim LEO and/or military experience.
An interesting complement to this observation is the number of shy/reserved/humble folk that possess teh r3@l deadlees.
7/05/2010 6:40pm, #3
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7/05/2010 6:55pm, #4
I do suspect that some of these guys, while they were indeed LEOs, sometimes choose to recount their careers as though they were the main characters in a TV show/cop movie and may be somewhat over-glamorizing their achievements. Or they come out with things like "regularly collaborated with the FBI" (which could mean something like being the guy who signed over evidence baggies, or something) or "taught advanced hand to hand combat skills to LEOs" (truth: a couple of my cop buddies trained at my dojo), or they put 'handgun certified' on their bio, as though this puts them head and shoulders above 'regular' cops...
Last edited by Larus marinus; 7/05/2010 7:02pm at .
7/05/2010 8:23pm, #5
Like Jim Wagner? Who was "a Cop" only in the loosest definition of the term IMO.
Try looking around the tactical firearms community..you haven't seen anything till you have waded through all the BTDT claims THERE.
IMO. The primary advantage SOME LEO instructors have is the expertise in the legalities of use of force and what to expect from the police post incident. When it comes to the "nuts and bolts" of physical technique, most of them have nothing over any other instructor.
7/05/2010 9:09pm, #6
I do suspect that some of these guys, while they were indeed LEOs, sometimes choose to recount their careers as though they were the main characters in a TV show/cop movie
I think you're definitely onto identifying a particular phenomenon with this idea, I wouldn't back down or second-guess myself (at least, not in public). Of course, if we were diligent, we'd probably find this topic buried in the entrails of bullshido, but I think it's more fun in the here and now.
7/05/2010 9:36pm, #7
No, I wouldn't put them in the same realm as larpers. Now, if they didn't make it out of the academy they are larpers. If they are beat cops that are inflating their credentials that's different.
I agree they are full of **** for lying but, I can't put them in the same boat as a civilian with zero training or skills.
7/05/2010 9:45pm, #8
7/05/2010 9:49pm, #9
7/06/2010 1:10am, #10Originally Posted by tgace
Originally Posted by tgace
Civilian who never was cop but claims to be/have been cop - may be doing something illegal and could probably be prosecuted, liable to end up being thought of as a piece of ****, a Walt, a crook, a fraud by the people he lied to.
Cop/ex cop who claims to be/have been super-cop - could probably get out of it with a few 'well, what I meant there was...'s if hauled over the coals by consumer advocacy website or brought to attention of the authorities, may retain nutriders and elicit 'well, when it comes to MAs, he has teh r3al'-type arguments on the internet.
Well, that's my two pieces of small coinage. :director: