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  1. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2010 6:03pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Claims of being a former/current police officer on 'about Sensei' pages? Red flag?

    I searched but I was unable to find an older thread specifically talking about this - but mods, please feel free to move/merge this somewhere more appropriate if I've missed where this was previously discussed.

    This is something I've seen quite a lot of when browsing for MA schools or following links from YouTube videos or whatever - an instructor/coach/sifu/sensei/etc. will go into great detail on his bio page about his career as a police officer, how many years he was a cop, about how he was on the SWAT team, about how he was involved in drug/human trafficking busts, about how he taught martial arts to the other cops, etc. - often going into more lurid detail about that area of his life than about his actual MA credentials. You guys have probably seen this sort of thing too.

    Obviously there's nothing wrong with being a cop/ex-cop and mentioning it on your bio (that's not what I'm trying to say at all) - but I do start to view the guy suspiciously when he's obviously using his status as a current/ex-LEO to imply that he's some sort of hand-to-hand fighting, reality self-defence badass with the deadly and that his stuff is what *everyone* on the force uses.

    Now, as far as I'm aware, police officers don't tend to just stand up and bang with criminals on the streets and tend to avoid taking guys head-on unless they have backup - and are nearly always armed and armoured (depending on the country) in some manner, so being a cop doesn't necessarily mean that someone is a 'fighting expert', per se...

    If you saw these kind of claims being made, would they make you decide there and then not to bother with the guy? I'm not thinking of any specific examples here at present - but it's something that I've noticed time and time again in my time online. Should they be treated in the same way as 'I was in the armed forces, so I can beat people up with my fists better than the next guy'-type claims?

    Also, what do you think about non-specific claims of being a bodyguard to the stars/bouncer/security consultant to company 'X' as proof of MA skills? This is also quite common. Same deal? I suspect so.

    (I suspect that I may get quite a few 'well, duh!' responses here - but I think that this is something that needs to be mentioned specifically)

    Cheers.
  2. submessenger is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2010 6:37pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think you may be onto something, though at a high level the behavior is not much different from most bullshido seen here.

    Every LEO I've known personally (ex or otherwise) has been stand-up, humble, and would never play Braggadocio. There is clearly a contingent among them that does, however.

    My point being that one could probably draw a well-founded conclusion equating the personalities of (ex)LEO with people that teach RBSD (bullshido or not): unchecked egos are more likely to teach/profess it, or something like that.

    Similarly, a lot of the exposés, here, seem to be of teachers of bullshido that also fraudulently claim LEO and/or military experience.

    An interesting complement to this observation is the number of shy/reserved/humble folk that possess teh r3@l deadlees.
  3. devilboy7778 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2010 6:40pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Larus marinus View Post
    I searched but I was unable to find an older thread specifically talking about this - but mods, please feel free to move/merge this somewhere more appropriate if I've missed where this was previously discussed.

    This is something I've seen quite a lot of when browsing for MA schools or following links from YouTube videos or whatever - an instructor/coach/sifu/sensei/etc. will go into great detail on his bio page about his career as a police officer, how many years he was a cop, about how he was on the SWAT team, about how he was involved in drug/human trafficking busts, about how he taught martial arts to the other cops, etc. - often going into more lurid detail about that area of his life than about his actual MA credentials. You guys have probably seen this sort of thing too.

    Obviously there's nothing wrong with being a cop/ex-cop and mentioning it on your bio (that's not what I'm trying to say at all) - but I do start to view the guy suspiciously when he's obviously using his status as a current/ex-LEO to imply that he's some sort of hand-to-hand fighting, reality self-defence badass with the deadly and that his stuff is what *everyone* on the force uses.

    Now, as far as I'm aware, police officers don't tend to just stand up and bang with criminals on the streets and tend to avoid taking guys head-on unless they have backup - and are nearly always armed and armoured (depending on the country) in some manner, so being a cop doesn't necessarily mean that someone is a 'fighting expert', per se...

    If you saw these kind of claims being made, would they make you decide there and then not to bother with the guy? I'm not thinking of any specific examples here at present - but it's something that I've noticed time and time again in my time online. Should they be treated in the same way as 'I was in the armed forces, so I can beat people up with my fists better than the next guy'-type claims?

    Also, what do you think about non-specific claims of being a bodyguard to the stars/bouncer/security consultant to company 'X' as proof of MA skills? This is also quite common. Same deal? I suspect so.

    (I suspect that I may get quite a few 'well, duh!' responses here - but I think that this is something that needs to be mentioned specifically)

    Cheers.
    The value I find in having teachers that were ex cops is that they can give you advice on awareness and what they have seen go down.
  4. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2010 6:55pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by daddykata View Post
    I think you may be onto something, though at a high level the behavior is not much different from most bullshido seen here.

    Every LEO I've known personally (ex or otherwise) has been stand-up, humble, and would never play Braggadocio. There is clearly a contingent among them that does, however.

    My point being that one could probably draw a well-founded conclusion equating the personalities of (ex)LEO with people that teach RBSD (bullshido or not): unchecked egos are more likely to teach/profess it, or something like that.

    Similarly, a lot of the exposés, here, seem to be of teachers of bullshido that also fraudulently claim LEO and/or military experience.

    An interesting complement to this observation is the number of shy/reserved/humble folk that possess teh r3@l deadlees.
    Has anyone actually been exposed by the site as falsely claiming to be/have been a police officer? Not that I've seen - you'd need rocks in your head to do something that idiotic because the cops tend to treat that **** seriously...

    I do suspect that some of these guys, while they were indeed LEOs, sometimes choose to recount their careers as though they were the main characters in a TV show/cop movie and may be somewhat over-glamorizing their achievements. Or they come out with things like "regularly collaborated with the FBI" (which could mean something like being the guy who signed over evidence baggies, or something) or "taught advanced hand to hand combat skills to LEOs" (truth: a couple of my cop buddies trained at my dojo), or they put 'handgun certified' on their bio, as though this puts them head and shoulders above 'regular' cops...

    Quote Originally Posted by devilboy7778 View Post
    The value I find in having teachers that were ex cops is that they can give you advice on awareness and what they have seen go down.
    Absolutely. I was referring more to the guys who puff up and use their ex-cop status to make themselves sound 'hard' when promoting their schools, or attribute their police heroics (which may or may not have actually been individual acts of badassness) to their martial arts skills...
    Last edited by Larus marinus; 7/05/2010 7:02pm at .
  5. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2010 8:23pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Like Jim Wagner? Who was "a Cop" only in the loosest definition of the term IMO.

    Try looking around the tactical firearms community..you haven't seen anything till you have waded through all the BTDT claims THERE.

    IMO. The primary advantage SOME LEO instructors have is the expertise in the legalities of use of force and what to expect from the police post incident. When it comes to the "nuts and bolts" of physical technique, most of them have nothing over any other instructor.
  6. submessenger is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2010 9:09pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Larus marinus View Post
    Has anyone actually been exposed by the site as falsely claiming to be/have been a police officer? Not that I've seen - you'd need rocks in your head to do something that idiotic because the cops tend to treat that **** seriously...
    Unsure, but a recurring theme seems to be the elite cop / elite soldier thing; the severity of the lie doesn't detract from the fact that it's a lie. So, being a regular beat cop while claiming to be super vice undercover superman is no different than being a police larper, imho.

    I do suspect that some of these guys, while they were indeed LEOs, sometimes choose to recount their careers as though they were the main characters in a TV show/cop movie
    Like I said, larpers. The difference between being a cop and pretending to uber-cop and being a civilian and pretending to cop is exactly nil, imho.

    I think you're definitely onto identifying a particular phenomenon with this idea, I wouldn't back down or second-guess myself (at least, not in public). Of course, if we were diligent, we'd probably find this topic buried in the entrails of bullshido, but I think it's more fun in the here and now.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2010 9:36pm

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    No, I wouldn't put them in the same realm as larpers. Now, if they didn't make it out of the academy they are larpers. If they are beat cops that are inflating their credentials that's different.

    I agree they are full of **** for lying but, I can't put them in the same boat as a civilian with zero training or skills.
  8. submessenger is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2010 9:45pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    No, I wouldn't put them in the same realm as larpers.
    Is this going to be one of those "severity of the lie," arguments?
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2010 9:49pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by daddykata View Post
    Is this going to be one of those "severity of the lie," arguments?
    If you want to use that strawman. I didn't say anything about the lie being less severe.
  10. Larus marinus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2010 1:10am

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgace
    Try looking around the tactical firearms community..you haven't seen anything till you have waded through all the BTDT claims THERE.
    I'm not hugely experienced with that area of the internet - but would it be an accurate observation to suggest that the term 'tactical' in relation to guns and knives tends to attract assholes, paranoiacs, urban commandos, very angry people and guys who seem *really* excited by violence like wasps to a jam jar?

    Quote Originally Posted by tgace
    IMO. The primary advantage SOME LEO instructors have is the expertise in the legalities of use of force and what to expect from the police post incident. When it comes to the "nuts and bolts" of physical technique, most of them have nothing over any other instructor.
    I wonder how many of these ex-LEO types actually advocate the 'self defence means going balls out and beating to a bloody pulp anyone who fucks with you or makes you feel threatened in the street' mindset - whilst knowing well that 'he started it, so I damn near killed the man' is not necessarily a valid legal defence in many jurisdictions?

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    No, I wouldn't put them in the same realm as larpers. Now, if they didn't make it out of the academy they are larpers. If they are beat cops that are inflating their credentials that's different.

    I agree they are full of **** for lying but, I can't put them in the same boat as a civilian with zero training or skills.
    I'm inclined to agree, perhaps not for the same reasons you were thinking of.

    Civilian who never was cop but claims to be/have been cop - may be doing something illegal and could probably be prosecuted, liable to end up being thought of as a piece of ****, a Walt, a crook, a fraud by the people he lied to.

    Cop/ex cop who claims to be/have been super-cop - could probably get out of it with a few 'well, what I meant there was...'s if hauled over the coals by consumer advocacy website or brought to attention of the authorities, may retain nutriders and elicit 'well, when it comes to MAs, he has teh r3al'-type arguments on the internet.

    Well, that's my two pieces of small coinage. :director:
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