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  1. GIburner is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    88

    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 2:22pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Bow to your sensei/BJJ prof

    (Sorry if I posted in the wrong forum, still a noob.)

    Since I've started martial arts training, I have come to realize that most TMA schools show some type of hierarchy as to higher rank, giving the most amount of respect etc to the instructor.

    Unlike many TMA styles, I've noticed that the respect of a higher rank and respect to others in BJJ varies from academy to academy.

    So here is the question.

    If an instructor that asks a higher rank (blue belt) to grapple a lower rank (white belt) of the same weight, does the blue belt have a right to decline the grapple?

    - The blue belt is not injured
    - There is no previous history of the two ever arguing etc
    - The white belt is a good grappler, but lacks finesse, making his grappling style very scrappy and at times frustrating to deal with
    - The excuse the blue belt gave is that he once got gauged in the eye by the grappler which was deemed unintentional by both grapplers.
    - The white belt has grappled several others in the academy and there has been no complaints as to his grappling style.

    This happened at my academy. There were two instances that this happened. The first time, The blue belt declined and said he had already chosen his grappling partner.
    The second time was when the time came to switch partners. Proffessor asks blue belt to grapple white belt once again and blue belt makes a big stink about why he is not allowed to choose his own partner. (we ARE actually picking our own partners every time, but if the instructor feels the need, he picks your partner for you)

    Please note that the instructor was never taken aside by anyone to complain on the white belt or blue belt on their grappling conduct in the academy.

    The instructor than stopped the class to announce to all that no one is to deny a grapple with any other student unless there is a valid reason. The blue belt walked off of the mat during the announcement and cancelled his membership the following day.

    I called the guy, told me he doesn't feel like he should pay someone to tell him what to do and who to grapple, that he was doing fine grappling people of his rank and higher.

    The question again -
    If an instructor that asks a higher rank (blue belt) to grapple a lower rank (white belt) of the same weight, does the blue belt have a right to decline the grapple?
  2. wonko221 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Sep 2009
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    76

    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 2:58pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIburner View Post
    The question again -
    If an instructor that asks a higher rank (blue belt) to grapple a lower rank (white belt) of the same weight, does the blue belt have a right to decline the grapple?
    absolutely. You are ultimately responsible for yourself. If you don't want to do something, do not do it. However, accept the consequences.

    If a student refuses a request like this, it's a sign of disrespect to the teacher and the fellow classmates. The instructor likely has his reasoning for wanting to see the blue belt grapple that particular student.

    if the blue belt knows more than the instructor, or doesn't trust his teaching, he'd do better in another school anyway (or, if he doesn't do better, the school at least will do better without him!).

    Edit: this is assuming that you're right that there is no safety concern. Your 2nd to last paragraph summed it up as an ego issue for me. The mat isn't big enough for that **** AND learning to take place.
  3. HereBeADragon is offline

    Senior Member

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    Feb 2010
    Location
    Inland Empire, California
    Posts
    1,151

    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 3:33pm


     Style: Limalama, Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First off you are definitely in the wrong forum. Second that blue belt (based on your description of events) was absolutely wrong in his actions. I've asked higher ranked belts to roll with white belts and never been refused. In fact I find it beneficial to both parties. A tantrum like that has no place in any art and certainly not on the mat.
  4. GIburner is offline

    Featherweight

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    Jul 2010
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    88

    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 3:44pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for your input, I would need help from a MOD to move this forum to the right place.
  5. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
    ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Jul 2004
    Location
    North England
    Posts
    643

    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 5:07pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If everyone decided to behave like that Blue Belt then nobody would be able to train in the school. It's like guys in a boxing gym refusing to hold pads for other people but demanding to be able to do pad work themselves,a completely unworkable situation.
  6. Southpaw is offline
    Southpaw's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Dec 2002
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    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    2,907

    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 6:10pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The blue belt was being a douche.

    If my instructor asks me to roll with somebody, whether they are a white belt or a black belt...I'm going to do it.

    I trust my instructor.
  7. Petter is offline

    12th level logic wielder

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    Mar 2007
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    Vancouver, BC
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    1,964

    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 6:18pm


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIburner View Post
    I called the guy, told me he doesn't feel like he should pay someone to tell him what to do and who to grapple, that he was doing fine grappling people of his rank and higher.
    If all the people who outranked him took a similar attitude, he might feel his development somewhat retarded. And the top student in the school would never get to roll at all…

    I think it’s a good sign that an attitude is poor (in a stronger word: selfish, or exploitative) if a scenario where everyone adopts it leads to a total breakdown.
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
  8. Vorpal is offline
    Vorpal's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    A Hell of my own making
    Posts
    3,078

    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 7:51pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you approach your instructor off line and explain that you prefer not to roll with student X because he is unsanitary, dangerous or some other legit reason they will probably accomadate you and/or address the situation. Keeping mum about it until the issue comes up in class and then undermining the instuctor in public will not enhance your relationship with the instructor and could be embarrassing for the other student. Really the blue belt here was out of line.
  9. jspeedy is online now
    jspeedy's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Nov 2008
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,644

    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 8:16pm


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIburner View Post
    (Sorry if I posted in the wrong forum, still a noob.)

    Since I've started martial arts training, I have come to realize that most TMA schools show some type of hierarchy as to higher rank, giving the most amount of respect etc to the instructor.

    Unlike many TMA styles, I've noticed that the respect of a higher rank and respect to others in BJJ varies from academy to academy.

    So here is the question.

    If an instructor that asks a higher rank (blue belt) to grapple a lower rank (white belt) of the same weight, does the blue belt have a right to decline the grapple?

    - The blue belt is not injured
    - There is no previous history of the two ever arguing etc
    - The white belt is a good grappler, but lacks finesse, making his grappling style very scrappy and at times frustrating to deal with
    - The excuse the blue belt gave is that he once got gauged in the eye by the grappler which was deemed unintentional by both grapplers.
    - The white belt has grappled several others in the academy and there has been no complaints as to his grappling style.

    This happened at my academy. There were two instances that this happened. The first time, The blue belt declined and said he had already chosen his grappling partner.
    The second time was when the time came to switch partners. Proffessor asks blue belt to grapple white belt once again and blue belt makes a big stink about why he is not allowed to choose his own partner. (we ARE actually picking our own partners every time, but if the instructor feels the need, he picks your partner for you)

    Please note that the instructor was never taken aside by anyone to complain on the white belt or blue belt on their grappling conduct in the academy.

    The instructor than stopped the class to announce to all that no one is to deny a grapple with any other student unless there is a valid reason. The blue belt walked off of the mat during the announcement and cancelled his membership the following day.

    The white belt is a good grappler, but lacks finesse, making his grappling style very scrappy and at times frustrating to deal with

    I called the guy, told me he doesn't feel like he should pay someone to tell him what to do and who to grapple, that he was doing fine grappling people of his rank and higher.

    The question again -
    If an instructor that asks a higher rank (blue belt) to grapple a lower rank (white belt) of the same weight, does the blue belt have a right to decline the grapple?
    Interesting post. Rather than referring to everything in a somewhat hypothetical manner why not just say what happened? Were you the white belt in the story? How do you relate to the story other than calling the blue belt and asking him what happened? Sounds like some school drama you are unnecessarily involving yourself in if the story doesn't directly involve you.
  10. omoplatypus is offline
    omoplatypus's Avatar

    Merry Christmas! shitter's full...

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,331

    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 10:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i'm a super heavy weight with blue belt level skills (by some measures).

    today at practice, i was asked to grapple a 16 year old newb, 80 lbs lighter than me.

    he was all heart. there was a reason coach wanted us to roll. we rolled.

    maybe there is more to your story. maybe something else was bugging him. if all there was was all you say, then the blue belt was as douche. i learned something rolling with this little kid that i didn't know i was doing wrong (i learned it by telling him to do it, then realizing i made the same mistake he did all the time).
    he learned that if he does what he has been taught, he doesn't have to be scared of big guys with jewbeards.
    --------

    Quote Originally Posted by it is fake View Post
    yeah, normally i'd get a quote, but couldn't be bothered.
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