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  1. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 4:57pm

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     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I always thought only first degree murder was premeditated while second degree was intentional, but heat-of-the-moment. If that isn't correct, what does 2nd really mean?

    As a cop, do you think in your professional opinion he was justified trying to tase the man in the situation the video shows?
  2. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 5:06pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    2nd degree just means that you didn't contemplate and/or plan and think about it. You still intended to kill the person and knew you were going to kill the person.

    In a nutshell:

    I wan't to kill you so I prepare, plan, locate and kill you- 1st degree.

    I catch you in bed with my wife so I kill you "in the heat of the moment"- 2nd degree.

    Either way I wanted to kill you. I don't see how they could argue such an intent in this case.

    Criminally negligent homicide was/is the best charge in this situation IMO (if the "I thought I was going for my Taser" defense holds water) . And since a man is dead due to this officers actions I don't really object to this verdict. I do object to lynch mob mentality and riots over it. The guy was found guilty and could face prison time for it. I have seen outright street killers let off with a handful of years served.

    Personally? I wouldn't have seen the need to Tase in this situation. But that shouldn't change the fact that the officer didn't intend to kill the guy and change this to a murder charge.
    Last edited by tgace; 7/09/2010 5:20pm at .
  3. Hooded Justice is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 5:54pm


     Style: Justice/Firearms

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are there any tasers out there that have the ability to launch the projetile barbs like the current versions but that does not have a pistol grip? I know there are the old school ones that look like a tv remote with arching electricity between two metal bits at the end. Are there any that are still that physical shape but that can launch the barbs like the new models? I don't think giving cops tasers is a good idea in the first place but if they are going to do it can they at least pick a model that doesn't apparently strongly resemble their duty weapon? I am friends with a local sherrif's deputy and his taser has a yellow bit at the end that the barbs come out of. Is that standard on all tasers issued to cops? If so seems unlikely they would mistake the taser and gun.
  4. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 6:09pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    some more intersting stuff:

    a) the jury put on a retarded charge that is contradictory which states that the weapon was modified there is a question of whether it will stick or not.

    I don't think this looks good it kind of looks like the jury was clueless. Obviously if you modified the weapon it was premeditated duh!!


    Anyhow TGRACE thanks for the summary for your info the judge threw out premeditated for consideration because it was not possible.
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
  5. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 6:14pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice View Post
    If so seems unlikely they would mistake the taser and gun.
    A lot of things seem unlikely when you are not the person under stress and adrenaline dump, looking at the incident after the fact.
  6. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 6:32pm

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     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    2nd degree just means that you didn't contemplate and/or plan and think about it. You still intended to kill the person and knew you were going to kill the person.

    In a nutshell:

    I wan't to kill you so I prepare, plan, locate and kill you- 1st degree.

    I catch you in bed with my wife so I kill you "in the heat of the moment"- 2nd degree.

    Either way I wanted to kill you. I don't see how they could argue such an intent in this case.

    Criminally negligent homicide was/is the best charge in this situation IMO (if the "I thought I was going for my Taser" defense holds water) . And since a man is dead due to this officers actions I don't really object to this verdict. I do object to lynch mob mentality and riots over it. The guy was found guilty and could face prison time for it. I have seen outright street killers let off with a handful of years served.

    Personally? I wouldn't have seen the need to Tase in this situation. But that shouldn't change the fact that the officer didn't intend to kill the guy and change this to a murder charge.
    I don't disagree that there wasn't intent to kill, I read your post incorrectly and thought you were saying only 1st degree had intent to kill which made me wonder if I had it wrong all this time. Yeah, I don't think he should be charged with murder either.

    "Could" face prison time is lame though, the guy definitely needs to serve at least the same handful of years served IMO.

    What disturbs me the most isn't even that cops are armed with human cattle prods nowadays, but that so many Americans see nothing wrong with it ("Oh, he should've listened to the cops and got down when they told him"). It kills me that these complacent schmucks are the same people who complain about big government and how it's infringing on our personal liberties. People make me ill.
  7. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 7:28pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The taser is a great tool that prevents a LOT of injuries to subjects AND officers. When trained properly and with the correct policies in place it is probably one of the BEST innovations in law enforcement. People who think that things are "worse" in LE use of force obviously were not around in the 60's-80's in the days of sap's, sap gloves, batons and general ass kicking that nobody could do anything about. The stories from the old timers (and the old time crooks) are staggering.

    We are light years ahead of those days in terms of professionalism and reduction in use of force. LE isn't all "officer friendly", getting cats out of trees and directing traffic. It can be ugly and tools like the Taser are a far better option for all involved than a good old fashioned ass kicking that could result in a higher probability of injury and/or death than if the taser wasnt around.

    Back when OC came out it was all "chemical weapons being used on civilians...positional asphyxia...cats playing with dogs hysteria" too....
    Last edited by tgace; 7/09/2010 7:32pm at .
  8. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 7:30pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by maofas View Post
    "Could" face prison time is lame though, the guy definitely needs to serve at least the same handful of years served IMO.
    I'm not on the sentencing jury.
  9. RaiderFunk is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 8:30pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
    some more intersting stuff:

    a) the jury put on a retarded charge that is contradictory which states that the weapon was modified there is a question of whether it will stick or not.

    I don't think this looks good it kind of looks like the jury was clueless. Obviously if you modified the weapon it was premeditated duh!!


    Anyhow TGRACE thanks for the summary for your info the judge threw out premeditated for consideration because it was not possible.
    no no...the modifier is not referring to the weapon.

    We in california passed a low that said if you commited a crime with a gun there could be an additional 2-10 years onto any crime when a gun was used. According to the Alameda County D.A. he will be sentenced to anywhere from 5-14 years in state prison doing 85% time, again because of the gun enhancement.
  10. crappler is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 8:48pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just don't believe he was sitting there and suddenly decided to kill that guy. That is the standard. In all the confusion and stress, he tried to taz the guy and killed him.

    Oh, and I'm a lawyer.
    "We often joke -- and we really wish it were a joke -- that you will only encounter two basic problems with your 'self-defense' training.
    1) That it doesn't work
    2) That it does work"
    -Animal MacYoung
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