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  1. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 3:47am

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJayBoogie View Post
    I thought the evidence warranted a murder 2 conviction. The officer acted wrecklessly with no regard for human life. Involuntary manslaughter was a terrible verdict for this case. There was no possible way that this professionally trained officer could mistake a tazer for a gun. He took the gun, assessed, aimed and shot. If that had been a taser during one of those steps he would have realized he had a taser. I am definitely at a loss of why he would taser someone with another cops knee on the kids head, but that's another issue.

    I don't blame the jury though, it is what it is. The bright side is I believe this is the first time a cop has ever been found guilty for any crime that resulted in the death of a suspect.
    Well now BJ..... certainly an understandable opinion. I do however have to make one correction that any of our East Bayers would surely not take me to task on (rivington, Ta other Sarge?) it is an oxymoron to profess that there is anything professional or compitant regarding a Bart police officer. These guys are anything but actually. If one were to write a novel like breslin did about the moblackeys (the gang that could not shoot straight) they would probably use the Bart Cops for the characters.
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
  2. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 3:55am

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    there were no African Americans ont he Jury....

    Conviction of a police officer in this area was statistically very rare if ever done....

    Thoughts? Was the jury biased?

    It should be noted that many people say and assume that African American jurists, especially in a group are lenient. In fact there is a statistic that says (can't remember where I read it dmanit) statistically African American Jury's (those with a majority of AA) have a higher conviction rate.... this could be for many reasons of course...


    And to be fair the OJ trial is a piss poor example of any jurist sentiments... the prosecution did a horrible job, I doubt any jury could have gotten a conviction in that trial.
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
  3. Mtripp is offline
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 6:05am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Guys, in the heat of battle most people who use a firearm do not even see their front site, let alone the gun in their hand.

    Unless you have actually faced the elephant, you might want to hold back on pontificating on what people do or do not see at that moment.

    There are plenty of video to make this point, likely the best is the gun battle between an officer and suspect, at about 10 feet, where both empty their guns and the ONLY person to get hit, was a driver going past the event.....
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
  4. jake8267 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 10:44am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The verdict in this case (despite my personal opinion on the event in question) gives me some hope for the jury system. It was plain from the video that the officer did not intend to shoot the suspect, and thus did not have the necessary mental aspects to be found guilty of murder or even voluntary manslaughter. Involuntary fit the facts of the case and current legal definitions just about perfectly.
  5. RaiderFunk is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 11:10am


     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by jake8267 View Post
    The verdict in this case (despite my personal opinion on the event in question) gives me some hope for the jury system. It was plain from the video that the officer did not intend to shoot the suspect, and thus did not have the necessary mental aspects to be found guilty of murder or even voluntary manslaughter. Involuntary fit the facts of the case and current legal definitions just about perfectly.
    it's not a huge miss-carriage of justice that some are going with. I don't agree with it, but the guy could conceavably do 14 year. Agitators would have been pissed with a murder 2 conviction because it was not murder 1. I know the family wanted murder, because he was murdered. I think if he had not resigned to avoid having to be interviewed about the incident and tried to show any amount of remorse there would have been a huge de-escalation. There was a plea bargain on the table, he wanted to go free.
  6. RaiderFunk is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 11:11am


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Guys, in the heat of battle most people who use a firearm do not even see their front site, let alone the gun in their hand.

    Unless you have actually faced the elephant, you might want to hold back on pontificating on what people do or do not see at that moment.

    There are plenty of video to make this point, likely the best is the gun battle between an officer and suspect, at about 10 feet, where both empty their guns and the ONLY person to get hit, was a driver going past the event.....
    I'll accept that. I would only add that a person laying down with another officers knee on his head, totally compliant begging not to be tasered is not the heat of battle.
  7. RaiderFunk is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 11:14am


     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
    Well now BJ..... certainly an understandable opinion. I do however have to make one correction that any of our East Bayers would surely not take me to task on (rivington, Ta other Sarge?) it is an oxymoron to profess that there is anything professional or compitant regarding a Bart police officer. These guys are anything but actually. If one were to write a novel like breslin did about the moblackeys (the gang that could not shoot straight) they would probably use the Bart Cops for the characters.
    Yes, the BART cops are terrible, they are the D team for sure. I just had no idea that they were this bad.
  8. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 12:36pm

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     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can believe that a cop would accidently pull their gun out under stress thinking it was their taser.

    That does not answer the question of why the cop using a taser on an already-restrained man in the first place. The guy was on the ground with another officer pinning him via kneeling on his back. The suspect wasn't even fighting with the cops in the first place, he just didn't get on the floor immediately when told. Tasers aren't cattle prods and people aren't cattle.

    This is not the first video I've seen of police totally misusing their tasers (or in this case what they may have thought was a taser). I think it's fucking scary we allow cops to carry them, because it gives them too much leeway because public perception is, "Oh it's just a shock, no real harm done". Well, I've seen people get tased and then smash their head into the floor as they fall, so it's often not much different than beating them over the head with a nightstick.

    If a guy is unrestrained and actively fighting, that's one thing, you should not be tasing people who don't get out of a seat fast enough or stand around asking, "What'd I do? What'd I do?" but aren't actually trying to hurt you.

    Much like politicians I think some cops forget that they are public servants and think they're stormtroopers for the Empire.

    Video if people haven't seen it:

    YouTube- POLICE SHOOTING AT BART STATION - OSCAR GRANT
  9. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 2:49pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJayBoogie View Post
    I know the family wanted murder, because he was murdered.
    Really? Do you know what the legal definition of murder is?
  10. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 2:56pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJayBoogie View Post
    that resulted in a murder?
    Madera, California – On October 27, 2002, a City of Madera police officer who was carrying her black M26 TASER on the strong side, shot and accidentally killed Everardo Torres, 24, who was already handcuffed. Officer Marcy Noriega, said, “I put the fucking TASER on he wrong side,” after she realized she shot the suspect with her firearm. She also stated, “please don’t die, please don’t die,” as Torres was being treated for his wound. Officer Torres had a prior incident in which she confused her TASER and her Glock when she was first issued the M26 model. Witnesses heard officer Noriega warn Torres that she was going to use her TASER if he continued to kick the inside of the patrol car. She wore her M26 TASER on the thigh holster on the same side as Glock semiautomatic pistol bellow her firearm. Also her gun and TASER were both equipped with the red laser sights.
    That resulted in the death of a handcuffed suspect in the back of a squad car...still not "murder" because you have to intentionally and with premeditation kill someone to be convicted of murder.
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