Pop a cap in my Aikido buttocks...

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 7/07/2010 3:58pm

Originally Posted by ignorami

We are extremely lucky locally in that pretty much every club round here (UK) has a different approach. Some Aikikai, Tomiki, Yoshinkan, Ki, AikiBudo, some Christ-knows-what, but (almost) everyone open and helpful

I would argue the point that it isn't actually "lucky" but quite the opposite.

The major problem with aikido within the United Kingdom is that of regulation. There's 50+ organisations that I know of; many of those members of the BAB however; none of them doing the same thing as each other, or perhaps actually pulling in the same direction.

Inherently you might say that's not so much a problem, given that there's more than one method of aikido however, the actual quality in terms of 'technical quality' of technique is fucking shocking in the vast majority of those 50+ groups because the vast majority are doing their own thing, making things up as they go along etc etc etc.

Aikido gets the bum's rush for many a reason, most quite justified however, where aikido is it's own worst enemy is that it attracts many people who seem to want to learn a so called "martial art" without actually doing anything "martial" in the process. Add that to the existing critique and you have a **** load of bollocks to contend with.

**Ignorami** · Posted On: 7/08/2010 4:06am

Hi Hugo

I guess I meant lucky for our experience personally. Being a bunch of low-grade no-marks, it would have been difficult for us to judge what we were being taught in a vacuum. By constantly being exposed to other people doing it differently, and justifying it differently, it gave us a yardstick we wouldn't have otherwise had. If you have a strong lineage and a firm hand at the top, I guess it's easier to maintain standards. Without other conflicting views though, the only way of knowing if that faithful reproduction is actually also good is to test it against honest resistance. Fine in many arts, but Aikido almost never has that. The next best thing we had was alternate views to weigh up.

Regards your last point, I absolutely can't agree enough. Loads of clubs are to Aikido what Tae Bo is Kick Boxing. I've no problem with people training like that if thats what they want (sure beats watching TV) but have the courage to call it what it is. Recreational Exercise.

The thing that bothers me the most in people Aikido attracts are those that claim they don't train to fight because they are 'pacifists'. They use that straw man to hide all manner of training sins, and poor technique. They use no strikes, they receive no real attacks, and ultimately use passive aggressive bullshit to take the moral highground when their poor technique is criticised. They will be the death of Aikido. I reckon most of them have been killed off on this forum, but I see them post on Youtube and it makes me weep.

I've yet to meet more than a couple of REAL pacifists. Conflict avoidance is to be encouraged. But if you avoid a fight because you'd lose it, its not virtuous pacifism - it's sensible cowardice. If you avoid a fight you'd win, that's pacifism.

Personally, I'm a big coward training in Aikido to hopefully one day become a pacifist.

**SaintHamish** · Posted On: 7/08/2010 6:58am

Originally Posted by ignorami

They will be the death of Aikido. I reckon most of them have been killed off on this forum, but I see them post on Youtube and it makes me weep.

Unfortunatly these 'types' arent exclusive to Aikido. Just about every combat element that exists is sodomised on youtube.

Originally Posted by ignorami

But If you avoid a fight you'd win, that's pacifism.

No, thats being morally rightous.

**Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs** · Posted On: 7/08/2010 7:24am

Originally Posted by ignorami

Hi Hugo

I guess I meant lucky for our experience personally. Being a bunch of low-grade no-marks, it would have been difficult for us to judge what we were being taught in a vacuum. By constantly being exposed to other people doing it differently, and justifying it differently, it gave us a yardstick we wouldn't have otherwise had. If you have a strong lineage and a firm hand at the top, I guess it's easier to maintain standards. Without other conflicting views though, the only way of knowing if that faithful reproduction is actually also good is to test it against honest resistance. Fine in many arts, but Aikido almost never has that. The next best thing we had was alternate views to weigh up.

Regards your last point, I absolutely can't agree enough. Loads of clubs are to Aikido what Tae Bo is Kick Boxing. I've no problem with people training like that if thats what they want (sure beats watching TV) but have the courage to call it what it is. Recreational Exercise.

The thing that bothers me the most in people Aikido attracts are those that claim they don't train to fight because they are 'pacifists'. They use that straw man to hide all manner of training sins, and poor technique. They use no strikes, they receive no real attacks, and ultimately use passive aggressive bullshit to take the moral highground when their poor technique is criticised. They will be the death of Aikido. I reckon most of them have been killed off on this forum, but I see them post on Youtube and it makes me weep.

I've yet to meet more than a couple of REAL pacifists. Conflict avoidance is to be encouraged. But if you avoid a fight because you'd lose it, its not virtuous pacifism - it's sensible cowardice. If you avoid a fight you'd win, that's pacifism.

Personally, I'm a big coward training in Aikido to hopefully one day become a pacifist.

You should use the Hugo Stiglitz*² Aikido method*³:
- use a 200lbs Kyokushin SanDan as tori.
- there can only be two outcomes:
1) your technique works
2) you wake up with a splitting headache

*² is The Stig related to Hugo Stiglitz?
*³ this is not a joke

**Ignorami** · Posted On: 7/08/2010 7:38am

Screw that.

We had a Kyokushinkai dan grade visit the club recently, and I practiced two specific techniques on him. 1. Being very polite. 2. trying not to look threatening.

Hugo, did you go at it then? What was the outcome? Was it while you were still doing Aikido, or since?

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 7/08/2010 1:58pm

The Kyokushin guy was one of my students, a Russian ex para conscript. He's a fucking hard as nails type and equally off his trolly.

Quick story..

This guy goes home to see his parents back in Russia only to find his only Karate instructor was holding a tourney, My student decides to enter.

A couple of weeks later my student returns to the club wearing braces on his teeth, I say hello and he just smiles, I ask him about the braces and he doesn't say a great deal about it. We crack on with the evening's training.

Later that evening another of my students approaches me and tells me on the quiet that Constantines (the Kyokushin guy) had been kicked square in the face and this had weakened a number of his teeth. I go to discuss this to make sure he was fit to train only to then find out from him that he'd not only got damaged teeth, but his upper jaw/cheek on the left side was fractured !!

This is after I'd been using this guy as my uke for several koshi nage !! LOL

Anyway. Yes, I used to use Constantines as my uke primarily because he knew how to make proper atemi and not give his posture away arbitrarily without me having to physically work for it. I learned A LOT from working with him on a regular basis..

The main lesson was, be on my fucking toes !

Shame that he's since moved to London to start and run his own business but it illustrates a valid point that aikidoka need to train in an environment where if they don't work at the application of their technique, they're going to get a fucking clout.