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  1. Pen is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    57

    Posted On:
    7/12/2010 8:22pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: jiu/ju/kettlebells/cma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the discussion gentlemen, I'm learning a lot about a style I always found interesting, but never knew much about. I wish the op would come back and report; if not I may actually go and check out the schools myself in a month or two, just because this thread has gotten me so curious.

    Ronin, a couple of questions for you. What you say makes sense about starting with baji right off, there are a number of hung gar instructors that do the same thing with years of prequel material, and it never made much sense to me, I was taught the Hung fist syllabus from day one. Just to play devil's advocate though, would your teacher have started you on Baji if you hadn't already been experienced in several other arts and hadn't already done your homework and knew exactly what you wanted?

    Also, did you study pigua as well? I've seen a lot of places that teach the two side by side, but some where it seems the curriculum is baji alone. Does that depend on lineage, is it a PRC/Taiwan thing, or am I misreading?
  2. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    2,468

    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 2:59pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pen View Post
    Thanks for the discussion gentlemen, I'm learning a lot about a style I always found interesting, but never knew much about. I wish the op would come back and report; if not I may actually go and check out the schools myself in a month or two, just because this thread has gotten me so curious.

    Ronin, a couple of questions for you. What you say makes sense about starting with baji right off, there are a number of hung gar instructors that do the same thing with years of prequel material, and it never made much sense to me, I was taught the Hung fist syllabus from day one. Just to play devil's advocate though, would your teacher have started you on Baji if you hadn't already been experienced in several other arts and hadn't already done your homework and knew exactly what you wanted?

    Also, did you study pigua as well? I've seen a lot of places that teach the two side by side, but some where it seems the curriculum is baji alone. Does that depend on lineage, is it a PRC/Taiwan thing, or am I misreading?
    First off, yes I believe my instructor would have started me with Baji if I had no previous experience. He has other students that have no MA training at all prior to training with him and they asked to learn Baji and that's what he started teaching them.

    As I mentioned earlier, Baji and Piqua are believed to have been originally taught side by side. At some point they split off but later, in the late 18th to 19th century, Li Shu Wen started teaching Piqua techniques alongside his Baji. In the style of Baji I study we actually have a form referred to as Baji-Piqua, and Piqua style techniques exist in other forms and training sets that we do.
    安氏八极拳学生
  3. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    2,468

    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 3:04pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    I can't be sure it's the same form, but the Wu Tan USA website has a picture gallery that features this photo:



    ... with the caption "Wu Tan Instructors practicing Pre-Ba Ji form-- 'Chung Yi Chuan'," which makes it sound like it is a beginner form that precedes Ba Ji training.

    Anyway, I hope someone stops by and reports back.
    Interesting, I wish there was video. They are definitely standing in a standard Baji posture. It could be a basic form or a training set. We have a training set called Ying Shou Quan which is a combination of techniques from the other 4 sets.
    安氏八极拳学生
  4. Pen is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    57

    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 9:58pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: jiu/ju/kettlebells/cma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Ronin,

    Thanks, that's pretty definitive, and I'm sorry I missed the part where you talked about the Baji/pigua relationship earlier, my bad.

    Another question for you and Jack; in the clip of Asia sparring, what are the elements that are characteristic of baji? I could guess, but I don't really know anything about baji, so I'd probably be wrong, and I'm not really seeing it myself. In the clip Jack posted, I see a bit more, but I also see things that I wouldn't have thought would be baji-ish, like all the lead leg side kicks to start off an attack, or the broom sweep (although it was quite nicely done).

    Again, thanks for taking the time to answer, this is very educational.

    -Pen

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74 View Post
    First off, yes I believe my instructor would have started me with Baji if I had no previous experience. He has other students that have no MA training at all prior to training with him and they asked to learn Baji and that's what he started teaching them.

    As I mentioned earlier, Baji and Piqua are believed to have been originally taught side by side. At some point they split off but later, in the late 18th to 19th century, Li Shu Wen started teaching Piqua techniques alongside his Baji. In the style of Baji I study we actually have a form referred to as Baji-Piqua, and Piqua style techniques exist in other forms and training sets that we do.
    Last edited by Pen; 7/13/2010 10:22pm at .
  5. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    2,468

    Posted On:
    7/14/2010 8:01pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pen View Post
    Hi Ronin,

    Thanks, that's pretty definitive, and I'm sorry I missed the part where you talked about the Baji/pigua relationship earlier, my bad.

    Another question for you and Jack; in the clip of Asia sparring, what are the elements that are characteristic of baji? I could guess, but I don't really know anything about baji, so I'd probably be wrong, and I'm not really seeing it myself. In the clip Jack posted, I see a bit more, but I also see things that I wouldn't have thought would be baji-ish, like all the lead leg side kicks to start off an attack, or the broom sweep (although it was quite nicely done).

    Again, thanks for taking the time to answer, this is very educational.

    -Pen
    Asia's hand position and straight punches are all indicative of Baji, but what really stands out is his use of Zhuang Kao. When Asia steps in and basically body checks his opponent and blows him off his feet, that is very Baji in nature.

    The clip Jack posted is basically two Baji practioners sparring in what is essentially a San Da rules set. Side kicks are not taught in the Baji curriculum but as with any style of Kung Fu/Wushu there are going to be universal basics that everyone learns across regardless of what style they study. The broom sweep is actually very common in Baji. It appears in several variations in training sets and forms.
    安氏八极拳学生
  6. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    2,468

    Posted On:
    7/14/2010 8:05pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    I can't be sure it's the same form, but the Wu Tan USA website has a picture gallery that features this photo:



    ... with the caption "Wu Tan Instructors practicing Pre-Ba Ji form-- 'Chung Yi Chuan'," which makes it sound like it is a beginner form that precedes Ba Ji training.

    Anyway, I hope someone stops by and reports back.
    I asked my instructor about the Zhong Yi Quan form and he was familiar with it. It is a Baji form, he believes that it is originally from the Wu Style syllabus.
    安氏八极拳学生
  7. Tommy_Griff is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    41

    Posted On:
    7/23/2010 1:46pm


     Style: TKD & MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry for the lack of response, but it turns out this guy I know goes to one of the places you guys posted. I'll post again next saturday after I take a trial class to see how the place feels.
  8. Tommy_Griff is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    41

    Posted On:
    7/31/2010 6:34pm


     Style: TKD & MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, I went to the Pachi Tang Lang Academy. They teach baji, but only after you have taken other styles. It was an awesome place. The guy who usually runs it was out due to a death, so I haven't actually talked to him yet. I'm going to stick around there so I guess my search for baji in NYC is over. Thanks for the responses and help guys.
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