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  1. RimTickler is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Old Bridge, NJ
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    22

    Posted On:
    7/11/2010 11:24am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: working student

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Yes and no, in terms Of curriculums, our students have to learn a bit of long fist, tai chi, praying, and baji system before formal baji training. It was designed this way to prepare
    students for building solid foundations in structure, strength, relaxation, application and the idea of yin and yang so that one can really adapt baji's full potential. But even with that said, since baji chuan is wu tan's main study focus, baji foundation is being applied and trained since day 1 for all our students

    Make sense?"

    this what I got when i emailed him
  2. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    2,468

    Posted On:
    7/11/2010 12:00pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RimTickler View Post
    "Yes and no, in terms Of curriculums, our students have to learn a bit of long fist, tai chi, praying, and baji system before formal baji training. It was designed this way to prepare
    students for building solid foundations in structure, strength, relaxation, application and the idea of yin and yang so that one can really adapt baji's full potential. But even with that said, since baji chuan is wu tan's main study focus, baji foundation is being applied and trained since day 1 for all our students

    Make sense?"

    this what I got when i emailed him
    Not to me. If you want to develope solid Baji skills I believe it would be in your best interest to start with the basic Baji jiben gong sets to build your foundation and then move on from there. This to me just sounds like them admitting their curriculum is limited.

    If you can get in contact with them again, I would ask them which sets they teach that are specifically Baji sets.
    安氏八极拳学生
  3. RimTickler is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Old Bridge, NJ
    Posts
    22

    Posted On:
    7/11/2010 10:25pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: working student

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74 View Post
    Not to me. If you want to develope solid Baji skills I believe it would be in your best interest to start with the basic Baji jiben gong sets to build your foundation and then move on from there. This to me just sounds like them admitting their curriculum is limited.

    If you can get in contact with them again, I would ask them which sets they teach that are specifically Baji sets.

    "In our baji system, we start from Chung-Yi Chuan, Da Baji as introduction then Small Baji, Jin studies, then six-hormonal spear, Liu-Da Kai, then Baji Lien-Huan Chuan."
  4. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    2,468

    Posted On:
    7/11/2010 10:50pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RimTickler View Post
    "In our baji system, we start from Chung-Yi Chuan, Da Baji as introduction then Small Baji, Jin studies, then six-hormonal spear, Liu-Da Kai, then Baji Lien-Huan Chuan."
    I am unfamiliar with Chung Yi Chuan (quan) and I don't know why you would learn the Long form (Da Baji) before learning the Small form (short form). "jin studies" probably refers to "Jin Gang Ba Shi" which is a training set. I am also unsure what Baji Lian Huan Chuan is, but I think it refers to Baji Dui Jie, which is a two man set. Liu Da Kai is another basic training set, and the Six harmony spear is only one of six weapons taught in Baji.

    I will post our curriculum for comparison. Please keep in mind other styles of Baji have some of these elements and lack others, as well as contain sets that do not exist in the style I study.

    Training Sets:

    Jin Gang Ba Shi (Huo Style)
    Liu Da Kai (Huo Style)
    Ba Da Zhao (Ma Style)
    Liu Zhou Tou (Huo Style)
    Ying Shou Quan (Huo Style)

    Taolu (Forms):

    Baji Xiao Jia (Huo style short form)
    Baji Da Jia (Huo Style long form)
    Fei Hu Quan (Ma Style)
    Baji Piqua (Huo style)
    Baji Xin Jia (Created by my instructor at the request of the Beijing Wushu team coaching staff)
    Baji Dui Jie (two man set)

    Weapons:

    Ying Feng Tiao zi gun (Huo Style staff)
    Chun Yang Jian (Huo style two handed straight sword)
    Shi San Dao Dian (Huo style Miao dao)
    Liu He Qiang (Huo Style spear)
    Jiu Jiu Bian (Huo style chain whip)
    Yang Shou Jian (one handed sword, unsure if it is of the Baji system)

    As you can see their is a vast difference between what my instructor teaches and what they are teaching. The same can be said if you compare our curriculum with what is taught by Wu style instructors, or Hao, or Han, or Ma.

    I still think that you should go and try a class out and see how it goes, it looks like they have a lot to offer and are worth a shot.
    安氏八极拳学生
  5. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Posted On:
    7/12/2010 8:15am


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Found Baji Lien Huan Quan online, it is not a 2 man set. It's another short form.
    安氏八极拳学生
  6. Jack Rusher is offline
    Jack Rusher's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Jan 2007
    Location
    New York City
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    2,135

    Posted On:
    7/12/2010 9:32am


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74 View Post
    I am unfamiliar with Chung Yi Chuan
    I suspect that it's the form known as chung chi chuan/zhong ji quan, which was the second or third (thus "middle") form in the Nanjing kuoshu academy syllabus:

    YouTube- shaolin zhong ji quan 少林中級拳
    Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  7. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Posted On:
    7/12/2010 10:23am


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    I suspect that it's the form known as chung chi chuan/zhong ji quan, which was the second or third (thus "middle") form in the Nanjing kuoshu academy syllabus:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qmwlfl6Alo
    Interesting. How would you categorize that form? It says Shaolin in the title but do you think it would be placed in the Long Fist category?
    安氏八极拳学生
  8. Jack Rusher is offline
    Jack Rusher's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2010 6:21pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74 View Post
    It says Shaolin in the title but do you think it would be placed in the Long Fist category?
    Definitely pre-wushu long fist. Here's the first form (chu chi chuan/zhu ji quan):

    YouTube- Shaolin - Zhu Ji Quan or Chu Chi Chuan
    (lazy performance, but the best one I could find)

    ... both of these forms are also done as a two-man set, the moves from which are meant to be done as drills. Here's an unfortunate performance of the two-man for zhu ji quan:

    YouTube- Chu Chi Chuan "24 Beat" (2-Person Set)

    The origin story points back to Gu Ruzhang at the old Nanjing Central Guoshu Academy, but I don't know what's true and what's not. I do know that many over-seas Chinese who learn kuoshu and fight on the leitai learn these forms, including many I've met from Taiwan.
    Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  9. Ronin.74 is offline

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Posted On:
    7/12/2010 7:32pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the links. Again, if it is zhong ji quan to which they are referring, I don't understand why it would be grouped in with the Baji curriculum and not just made part of the beginners curriculum.
    安氏八极拳学生
  10. Jack Rusher is offline
    Jack Rusher's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/12/2010 7:57pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74 View Post
    Again, if it is zhong ji quan to which they are referring, I don't understand why it would be grouped in with the Baji curriculum and not just made part of the beginners curriculum.
    I can't be sure it's the same form, but the Wu Tan USA website has a picture gallery that features this photo:



    ... with the caption "Wu Tan Instructors practicing Pre-Ba Ji form-- 'Chung Yi Chuan'," which makes it sound like it is a beginner form that precedes Ba Ji training.

    Anyway, I hope someone stops by and reports back.
    Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
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