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  1. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2010 4:49pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Forget all of that and get a Russian AK. A Saiga if you want to do all the work to it yourself or an Arsenal if you want it converted out of the box. You can get em in 7.62x39mm, 5.45x29mm, .223 Remington, or .308 Winchester and they're superbly accurate rifles with better reliability than you'll get with any AR no matter what caliber you choose. I've been in the AR-15 game before and I'd much rather have just an AK than just an AR, even a piston AR.
  2. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2010 5:41pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're going to get a Century rifle, get an AK clone in 5.45x39. I believe that caliber is still cheap and widely available. Also, if you drop it in a ditch and run it over you won't feel too bad.
  3. SteyrAUG223 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/05/2010 11:55pm


     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gwinn View Post
    Yes, you could do that if you were made of money, but if that were a financial option for Ronin I think he'd have just done it. I imagine he wants to spend less than a SP1 costs right now.
    They don't cost any more than a current Colt if you look around.

    http://v2.gunbroker.com/Auction/View...Item=177043687
  4. mad_malk is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/07/2010 6:41pm


     Style: Krav Maga/ Judo noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    if your going to buy an AR-15 do your self a favor. Order your upper and lower separately. it will save you money and allow you to get exactly what you want. I had Henderson Defense industries in Nevada make my lower. it's flawless. as for an upper the best bang for your buck with high quality and decent price is Bravo company manufacturing. here it is.


    If you really want to low down on were to get Ar-15 info pm me and I'll give you the site that has the no **** info and will give you a nice readable chart on what you get from quality manufactures. If your looking to buy a M-16A1 that may or may not work if you need it then disregard my post.
    Last edited by mad_malk; 7/07/2010 6:58pm at .
  5. 3moose1 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/07/2010 9:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MCMAP, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zaohu View Post
    Forget all of that and get a Russian AK. A Saiga if you want to do all the work to it yourself or an Arsenal if you want it converted out of the box. You can get em in 7.62x39mm, 5.45x29mm, .223 Remington, or .308 Winchester and they're superbly accurate rifles with better reliability than you'll get with any AR no matter what caliber you choose. I've been in the AR-15 game before and I'd much rather have just an AK than just an AR, even a piston AR.

    Go to hell. You act like the AK is superior in terms of firepower, reliability and maintenance.

    You act like the only thing the m4/m16 series' have over it is accuracy at longer distances, and POSSIBLY more armor piercing properties...

    (btw, i believe the US military should switch to 6.86 mm instead of 5.56 :/)

    PROOF that I'm not a completely useless poster:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...0&postcount=58


    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce
    3moose1 is correct. Sig THAT, you fucker.

    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101 View Post
    I went out with a delightful young woman who was on a regimen of pills that made her taste of burned onions.
    That is not conducive to passionate cunnilingus, my friend, let me assure you.
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy View Post
    I agree with moosey
  6. Knave is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2010 1:04am


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Greetings.

    IMO...

    I have a Saiga which I converted myself as well as a Bulgarian AK74 with original chrome lined barrel.

    I would take any of my AR's over those guns any day of the week if I had to depend on it.

    Neither the Saiga or Bulgy is anywhere close to being as accurate as any of my AR's. Not with irons, not with optics.

    Anyway, as for AR's, your best deal on a complete upper at the moment is probably here:
    http://www.jsesurplus.com/custom16hb...tandard-2.aspx

    You can probably buy a stripped lower on gunbroker for about $75 if you look around. Add $30 or so for shipping and transfers and you should be able to get a stripped lower for no more than $125 absolute max. Similarly, if you do some looking around you can probably throw together all the parts for your lower for $75 to $100 and end up with a complete gun for $500-$550. Or if you do some shopping around you can get a complete lower for $250ish and call it a day.

    Edit - Btw, AR "brand" is mostly irrelevant. There are only a handful of places that actually manufacture parts. The parts are bought and brand names are stuck on them.
    Last edited by Knave; 7/11/2010 1:15am at .
  7. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    ...is THE PENETRATOR

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2010 9:40am

    supporting member
     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mad_malk View Post
    if your going to buy an AR-15 do your self a favor. Order your upper and lower separately. it will save you money and allow you to get exactly what you want. I had Henderson Defense industries in Nevada make my lower. it's flawless. as for an upper the best bang for your buck with high quality and decent price is Bravo company manufacturing. here it is.


    If you really want to low down on were to get Ar-15 info pm me and I'll give you the site that has the no **** info and will give you a nice readable chart on what you get from quality manufactures. If your looking to buy a M-16A1 that may or may not work if you need it then disregard my post.

    I wonder if they're in Henderson, NV. In that case I could probably just drop by their place one day.
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
  8. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/11/2010 5:31pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 3moose1 View Post
    Go to hell. You act like the AK is superior in terms of firepower, reliability and maintenance.

    You act like the only thing the m4/m16 series' have over it is accuracy at longer distances, and POSSIBLY more armor piercing properties...

    (btw, i believe the US military should switch to 6.86 mm instead of 5.56 :/)
    I agree that the military should switch from 5.56 to either 6.8 Rem or 6.5 Grendel (6.5 has better ballistics at ranges 300-600 meters out). It seems the guys up top are of the mindset that "hey, everybody else is doing it, so lets shoot what they shoot!"

    As for the AK vs AR debate, I am a fan of both and have owned both BUT will never invest in an AR in .223 again because it didn't outperform my WASR-10 in any way even after costing twice the price. Even in terms of accuracy, when fired in Semi Auto the AR will not have a significant advantage in accuracy over the AK series of rifles. It won't clean up as easily, it won't function as reliably, and I'd much rather be able to fully load my magazines than load to 28.

    The Gas Piston AR platform is also still very much being perfected. Maybe once it's got a good track record under it's belt I'll look at it more fondly, but not any time soon. I believe rifles that were designed around a gas piston system instead of having a gas piston system designed to slap into the rifle will outlive Piston ARs.
  9. Knave is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/11/2010 8:09pm


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Greetings.

    How does an AR not clean up as easily? I apply CLP to the barrel/chamber, bolt, and carrier liberally, scrub scrub the parts and receiver for half a minute, wipe everything down, lube it with CLP and I'm done. With my Saiga and AK I apply CLP to the barrel/chamber, bolt, and carrier liberally, scrub scrub the parts and receiver for half a minute, wipe everything down, lube it with CLP and I'm done.

    If anything my AK takes a bit longer because all my ammo is corrosive.

    What are you considering to be "more reliable?" Generally today's AR's are more reliable than AK's when the user has the ability to properly clean and lube the gun. AR's still get a bad rap due to botched decisions during its early use. The only semi-legitimate issue is the relative durability (lack thereof) of GI magazines which is by and large a non-issue for stateside owners and easily remedied with PMags anyway.

    What are you calling a "significant advantage" in terms of accuracy? Average off the shelf AR can easily get 1-2 MOA. Average off the shelf AK is doing good to hit 5 MOA. That's a pretty significant accuracy advantage if you ask me. I guess if you're talking about defensive shooting at 25 yards or less, ya, the AR doesn't have a "significant advantage." But you know what 25 yards is in terms of defensive shooting? Buckshot range.
  10. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/11/2010 9:17pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Knave View Post
    Greetings.

    How does an AR not clean up as easily? I apply CLP to the barrel/chamber, bolt, and carrier liberally, scrub scrub the parts and receiver for half a minute, wipe everything down, lube it with CLP and I'm done. With my Saiga and AK I apply CLP to the barrel/chamber, bolt, and carrier liberally, scrub scrub the parts and receiver for half a minute, wipe everything down, lube it with CLP and I'm done.

    If anything my AK takes a bit longer because all my ammo is corrosive.
    I'm speaking from my own experience. The AR I had was made by DPMS with a stainless BBL. I couldn't take it apart without a flathead screwdriver and a significant amount of force because the take down pins in the receiver were tighter than a midget's anus. When I had my Romanian AK it came apart in seconds for cleaning with no tools required. I also found that the 7.62 bore snake I used ran through the barrel easier than my .223 did in the AR.

    What are you considering to be "more reliable?" Generally today's AR's are more reliable than AK's when the user has the ability to properly clean and lube the gun. AR's still get a bad rap due to botched decisions during its early use. The only semi-legitimate issue is the relative durability (lack thereof) of GI magazines which is by and large a non-issue for stateside owners and easily remedied with PMags anyway.
    More reliable due to it's loose tolerances. Either weapon in my experience will function perfectly in ideal settings, but with my AR I would get some problems if the bolt got too hot and wasn't given time to cool down. Heat wasn't an issue with my WASR.

    Also, what makes you think that today's ARs are more reliable than today's AKs? This is news to me. I agree that today's AR-15s are far more reliable than they were in the past, but to call them more reliable than an AK seems like a bit of a stretch IMO.

    What are you calling a "significant advantage" in terms of accuracy? Average off the shelf AR can easily get 1-2 MOA. Average off the shelf AK is doing good to hit 5 MOA. That's a pretty significant accuracy advantage if you ask me. I guess if you're talking about defensive shooting at 25 yards or less, ya, the AR doesn't have a "significant advantage." But you know what 25 yards is in terms of defensive shooting? Buckshot range.
    I don't know what your experience is with AKs, but I haven't been able to perform any better with an AR than with an AK at 50-100 yards or so. As I said above, this is all from my personal experience. I don't shoot rifles more than 3-4 times a year compared to handgun shooting which I get a lot more practice with (I enjoy it more).
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