Sportification of martial arts-crippling or refinement?

**keyoz** · Posted On: 6/26/2010 3:19pm

CMA being transformed into competitive PJ dancing, because looking good gets you the chicks and bruises don’t look good.

Savate grappling elements being eliminated because everybody knows grappling is gh4y, but wearing unitards is manly.

TKD not teaching how to throw a proper punch because it’s the kicks that score points, and besides noone really punches to the face- that’s just plain rude.

Judo leg locks being eliminated post war, because they are t3h d34dly.

Those are some of the examples of what happened when martial arts were transformed into sports – they lost some of their aspects because those aspects don’t work well in their sport sets of rules.

On the other hand competitive sports tend to give better conditioned, more experienced and overall higher level players.

So what’s your take on it? Do you guys think that transforming martial arts into sports is crippling those arts or refining them?

**TheMightyMcClaw** · Posted On: 6/26/2010 5:00pm

You're looking it in too broad of terms.
It really depends on what the sport it's being turned into is.
Take, for example, the sportification of CMA you mentioned; on the one hand, it gave us the purely aesthetic tao lu competitions completely lacking in martial values.
On the other hand, it also gave San Da:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8nCgNTByiE
Which in turn offers us a whole lot more than any TCMA ever did.

The TKD example is better, as it shows the limitations of turning something into a really shitty sport.
Even that, however, is still better than a martial art that has no sporting application whatsoever.
This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4pia...eature=related
Is still better than this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR4Gzh-4Ud8

**nomamao** · Posted On: 6/26/2010 5:12pm

I think we can do without forms competitions in Southern CMA styles, personally. Maybe Two Man sets could still be used, because good choreography is always a fun watch.

**Alucard619** · Posted On: 6/26/2010 5:20pm

TKD not teaching how to throw a proper punch because it’s the kicks that score points, and besides noone really punches to the face- that’s just plain rude.

What kind of school have you trained at where they didn't teach how to punch properly?

**Uncle Skippy** · Posted On: 6/26/2010 7:25pm

Originally Posted by Alucard619

What kind of school have you trained at where they didn't teach how to punch properly?

I've seen TKD Black Belts hit pads with wrists so bent you could see the bend even in 14oz boxing gloves. They came from different schools.

Too many TKD schools advocate back-fists and ridge-hands since those are legal in various point sparring competitions. Straight punches and closed fist hooks are discouraged because they are deemed as 'excessive force' at those same competitions. As a result, you learn how to slap somebody in the head, but not how to hit them.

It takes more time to correct that technique than it would have to teach it to somebody just starting out.

**Alucard619** · Posted On: 6/26/2010 7:32pm

Originally Posted by Uncle Skippy

I've seen TKD Black Belts hit pads with wrists so bent you could see the bend even in 14oz boxing gloves. They came from different schools.

Too many TKD schools advocate back-fists and ridge-hands since those are legal in various point sparring competitions. Straight punches and closed fist hooks are discouraged because they are deemed as 'excessive force' at those same competitions. As a result, you learn how to slap somebody in the head, but not how to hit them.

It takes more time to correct that technique than it would have to teach it to somebody just starting out.

That's bullshit man, what type of training is that supposed to be?

When I started TKD, the first thing I learned was how to punch right. Oh and what type of competition sparring allow the use of ridge hands and back fists? Certainly not WTF (not too sure about ITF though).

**Arcan** · Posted On: 6/26/2010 7:41pm

The habits that sports TKD engrains do not lead to effective punching and more damningly do not lead to effective punch defense. I still have horrible habits with my hands and my last TKD class was 10 years ago. And that was going to more "progressive" schools that were no longer advocating punching from the waist.

**BKR** · Posted On: 6/26/2010 8:17pm

"Judo leg locks being eliminated post war, because they are t3h d34dly."

If you are going to talk about Judo, then you need to get your facts straight. Leg locks were removed from competitions way before WW2.

Ben

**iopyud** · Posted On: 6/26/2010 8:40pm

Judo recently have rules that prohibit leg grabs. This means no x-leg takedowns and sprawls.

The art is still effective but it just lost a good amount of techniques IMHO.

**speedycerviche** · Posted On: 6/26/2010 9:17pm

"Judo recently have rules that prohibit leg grabs. This means no x-leg takedowns and sprawls.

The art is still effective but it just lost a good amount of techniques IMHO."

You can still do leg takedowns just have to do something else first so it has not really lost any techniques with this rule change.