Thread: Waki Gatame
6/29/2010 2:46am, #1
I keep noticing a common thread that many people here feel this is a low percentage move that is highly ineffective. I have done some "looking about" and I think I see the problem.
Lets look at two VERY bad examples.
YouTube- Waki Gatame
YouTube- judo club gardanne: waki gatame
Now, lets look at the basics from the Kodokan:
YouTube- Waki Gatame
(Notice at the end how it is used in Shiai, and why its now banned.)
Now, who wants to comment on the major differences in the video?
Oh, here is a clue, the principles of the cross body arm lock apply to waki gatame too."Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
6/29/2010 3:14am, #2
Let me put it this way: Waki Gatame as I've been taught it is a low percentage move. We have a jujutsu club attached to my judo club, every bloody combo we practice there seems to end in a retarded Waki Gatame that requires uke to pause after their last move and be completely compliant. I imagine this is most peoples experience of the lock, as it doesn't really get taught as a randori move.
Also, is it really illegal, or is taking somebody down with their elbow locked what's illegal? If you did Waki Gatame to somebody who was trying to turtle would it be OK?
6/29/2010 3:23am, #3
Yes, it is really illegal to lock a persons arm and take them to the mat with it. I would not have said it were it not so. Sato is seriously injured in the video.
Waki (ushiro waki gatame) against the turtle is very effective, more so because turtles are much tighter in the real world than the ones you see in seminar clips."Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
6/29/2010 3:39am, #4
Oh yeah, and to answer your original question about the videos. It looks a bit like n one they've got their weight armpit-to-armpit, to allow them to pin uke more solidly, and in the other they've got armpit/ribs to elbow which puts more pressure on the elbow.
6/29/2010 3:51am, #5
You have the problems with the videos correct. Less obvious is that in the first two, tori is not clamping the locked arm with his own arm. Like squeezing your knees together for Juji gatame, that is a critical but often overlooked part of waki gatame.
6/29/2010 4:06am, #6
6/29/2010 4:08am, #7
6/29/2010 4:39am, #8
6/29/2010 4:40am, #9
THANK YOU for the wakigatame input Mr. Tripp! Now I just need a Coach Josh video on this and my life is complete. My copy of Vital Judo shows waki-gatame from standing as well, and using it was one of the only handful of times that I actually "ipponed" someone in practice while training with one of the regional champion judo teams.
I had to apply it extremely slowly as I don't think my partner even knew what I was even doing, and in the end I let it go because he wouldn't tap and I didn't want to crank it. I never really tried it again after that because I figured unfamiliarity could mean potential injury.
6/29/2010 7:28am, #10
From the IJF Home Page on rules:
Originally Posted by Section 16 Entry into newaza
Originally Posted by 27. Prohibited acts and penalties