the cause of Abusive McDojos.

**Dorje** · Posted On: 11/11/2002 3:38pm

this is a continuation of an earlier thread ("Concerned and pretty darn angry"), but with a change of direction, hence a new thread.
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probably most of us know about atleast one, or afew, mcdojos, that has gone completly out of bounds. that acctualy do harm to their students.

"dojos" that make their students loose selfesteem, intead of raising it, that disempowers intead of the oposite. schools where the instructors physically hurts and/or intimidates the students on a regular basis, etc, etc, etc. (im sure you know a thousand bad things they do, and its not relevant to recount all of them).

the Question is "why does this happen?", AND even more important, when it does, "why doesnt anyone imediately react, to point out this is not right?".

One of the main causes (i belive) may be the growing popularity of MMA and "Sports martial arts". that by openly and overly encouraging the competative side of MA we somewhat loose sight of the inner parts of it.

for my own part id like to state that, MA has been one of the greatest, most enriching parts of my life, and not only on a physical level. it has taught me many things about myself, about dicipline, about patience, simplicity and even about humor and compassion.

but sometimes i feel that this is slowly dissapearing in the MA that is taught today. everything is so focused on defeating someone else, that we forget about ourselves. and when that happens... alot of things go missing. (and im not saying that sparring is bad, or any crap like that).

i dont know if anyone else has this nagging feeling but if you do... give your oppinion. (and ill stop here before i start rambling).

Michael · Posted On: 11/11/2002 6:35pm

Well truthfully I've got mixed feelings on this matter. Where does one draw the line in teaching students a level of humility? For kids I sometimes sarcastically tell them their kick sucked "my dead grandma can kick higher than that". Once in a while I get a kid that takes it to heart. For adults I will physically put them in place when I feel that they are doing something that may hurt their partner needlessly. Some have said I'm just being a bully doing it. Where as I feel its totally justified so they understand what they are doing wrong.

For example kids; if I feel that a kid is bullying another kid for no reason I'll set him or her up with the 3 best kid fighters in the whole school to fight full contact without stopping. Does that kid quit? 99% of the time they do, but I don't like bullies.

For adults; Me or one of the other head instructors will get on the floor and do it. We'll do it to the point of embarrassment, not an actual beat down. If they don't like it they can find the door.

Truthfully the above examples have only happened 5 times cumultive since starting to teach (12 years now). So does this make me abusive? To some of you absolutely. Where do we draw the line? You guys talk about belt testing, my instructor used to mug me as graduation to the next level of training. If I did well I get to learn new things, if not, back to the drawing board. What is abusive and what isn't? Some of you may think that's extreme and abusive.

Truthfully in all of these scenarios nobody was hurt except ego. And where that ego was hurt we built good character. Either they learn from it or they quit and live in their world of false superiority.

Ah well I'm babbling have a nice veteran's day guys....

Two guys walk into a bar....ouch that's gotta hurt.

**Dorje** · Posted On: 11/11/2002 8:38pm

well, yeah of course,

five times in twelve years is not what im talking about. sometimes the only/best way to teach someone what they do to others is to do it to them. (my teacher did it once to me. second week of training. i had been going a little rough on a guy who was not as good as i, nothing exessive, but it earned me a not so pleasent sparr with sensei. i remember it like yesterday, and since then ive always strived to sparr in a way that makes it productive for both parties.) so im not saying its absoulutely bad to get a little tough sometimes.

but, at some dojos it happpens every session. and thats not right, god knows why people stay at such places... but many do. for years. (and then some of those open their own schools).

and i think that is what my issue boils down to, why dont people recognice these dysfuctional frauds for what they are, and is there anything we, in the MA comunity, can do to change things?

dorje