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  1. #41
    Mtripp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightowl View Post
    I started a thread awhile back on whether or not wakigatame was 'the deadly' of judo or not. It seems like it actually might be to an extent....but its iffy rule status messes things up a bit. Oh and Hansokumake at 0:20 in the video.
    Except in the video they are not in Randori or Shiai, now are they?

    I posted a video in the advanced grappling forum shows why we now have that rule. However, if you have the skill to lock one on, adding the sweep or the drop is not that difficult.

    No one is saying anything is "deadly" or anything of the kind. I am saying that there are some core judo waza that work well for defense for a personal assault.
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC

  2. #42

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    I caught a bjj purple belt in wakigatame once. I caught it perfect, put it on very hard as we were in transition (from the knees) and he tapped quickly. He was shocked, asked what I did, then proceeded to kick my ass for the remander of the sparring session.

    It's always been one of those "I can do it to you once" kind of moves for me. Right up there with sneaky wrist locks.
    "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki

  3. #43
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyoz View Post
    CMA being transformed into competitive PJ dancing, because looking good gets you the chicks and bruises donít look good.

    Savate grappling elements being eliminated because everybody knows grappling is gh4y, but wearing unitards is manly.

    TKD not teaching how to throw a proper punch because itís the kicks that score points, and besides noone really punches to the face- thatís just plain rude.

    Judo leg locks being eliminated post war, because they are t3h d34dly.

    Those are some of the examples of what happened when martial arts were transformed into sports Ė they lost some of their aspects because those aspects donít work well in their sport sets of rules.

    On the other hand competitive sports tend to give better conditioned, more experienced and overall higher level players.

    So whatís your take on it? Do you guys think that transforming martial arts into sports is crippling those arts or refining them?
    Before you ever post on Bullshido again, consider that Paul Vunak is waiting to tear your carotid out with his teeth.

    :icon_bril

  4. #44
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlosJesena View Post
    Really? Because it's ITF TKD that's like the "Kyokushin" of TKD.
    Uh...no...ITF is not like the Kyokushin of TKD. There is no Kyokushin of TKD and if there was, it would be the ruleset that allows full-contact kicks to the head and body...the WTF.

    I lol at you.

    LOL.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Except in the video they are not in Randori or Shiai, now are they?

    I posted a video in the advanced grappling forum shows why we now have that rule. However, if you have the skill to lock one on, adding the sweep or the drop is not that difficult.

    No one is saying anything is "deadly" or anything of the kind. I am saying that there are some core judo waza that work well for defense for a personal assault.
    It amazes me how many people are unable to make these distinctions...or how many people are unable to make the subtle paradigm shift from sport training to self-defense training. I say subtle because it is not a leap from one category to the other, but rather just a change of focus, while maintaining the same training methodology.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    Ben I think you forgot to paste in the link. Do you have a source for Kano wanting judo to be effective for ffighting/self protection (which ever wording you prefer). The jf regulars seem to get pretty hostile anytime someone suggests judo should be usable for that.
    Sorry about that, I was running out the door to water the garden and spaced it.

    No, what some of them get upset about is the suggestion that fighting/self protection was the primary or only thing Kano was interested in. All one has to do is read Kano's works about the ultimate aims of Judo. Judoinfo has a lot of Kano's writings translated, I'd start there.

    Ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Sorry about that, I was running out the door to water the garden and spaced it.

    No, what some of them get upset about is the suggestion that fighting/self protection was the primary or only thing Kano was interested in. All one has to do is read Kano's works about the ultimate aims of Judo. Judoinfo has a lot of Kano's writings translated, I'd start there.

    Ben
    I find this telling every time I read it.

    Excerpt from "On Jujutsu and its Modernization"
    by Kenji Tomiki

    Once in 1926 Master Kano discussed in a radio broadcast the subject of Judo of old and the Judo of the future, and in the next year in an address to his students he remarked as follows: "I think that there must be a method of randori and shiai that includes the atemi-waza, provided that we devise it gradually and only after thorough investigation. That system, however, is not as easy as the ones in which the relative merits are decided by throwing (nage) or restraining (osae) an opponent." The randori and shiai training that would include the atemi-waza was contemplated by Master Kano, as we have learned from this quotation, but it was not realised during his lifetime.


    Seems to me that Kano wanted a system that was useful for self defense. Why else would he be encouraging the eventual adaptation of striking into competition and randori. BTW, with modern safety gear, I don't see why this could not be possible and still stay within the spirit of judo.
    "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki

  8. #48
    Mtripp's Avatar
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    Two words; Combat Sambo
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Two words; Combat Sambo
    That was basically what I was thinking. I was just going to say MMA with Gi's and a bunch of Japanese words, bowing, and snobbery (I kid).
    "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki

  10. #50
    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours. Join us... or die
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    Ben I think you forgot to paste in the link. Do you have a source for Kano wanting judo to be effective for ffighting/self protection (which ever wording you prefer). The jf regulars seem to get pretty hostile anytime someone suggests judo should be usable for that.
    http://judoforum.com/index.php?/topi...ge__hl__Santel


    Sorry about that, I was running out the door to water the garden and spaced it.

    No, what some of them get upset about is the suggestion that fighting/self protection was the primary or only thing Kano was interested in. All one has to do is read Kano's works about the ultimate aims of Judo. Judoinfo has a lot of Kano's writings translated, I'd start there.

    A search of the History forum at judoforum.com also will reveal lots of interesting things about Judo history. There are a few true scholars who post there, people who are literate in Japanese and do legitimate research in Judo history. NBK, Jon Z, sam, are three.

    Ben

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