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  1. Sri Hanuman is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/26/2010 11:19am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Solvalou View Post
    Sorry, I had to Google Erle Montaigue to see who he was. As far as I can tell there's no connection between the two.
    Well, that's one BS qualifier crossed off.

    I haven't actually met the guy in my town, and I probably never will; I just thought it was odd that he's claiming a sixth dan. There's a website listed with the advertisement but it doesn't work.
    I found an International Wushu grading site that lists duans.
    This is definitely a recent trend.
    http://www.angelfire.com/ks/wmal/page26.html
    =================
    Kama Sutra blue belt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    I used to **** guys like you in prison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Ape View Post
    Dude I kill people for a fucking living.

    Dipshit
  2. Rabu is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2010 9:39am


     Style: Northern Shaolin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Duan grading is a response to commercial and social needs to identify wushu/kuoshu practitioners in open competition and advertising.

    Effectively, it creates a "dan/kyu" grading system for chinese martial artists so that they can properly place themselves in divisions for open competitions as well as compete in advertising.

    When I started to train, there were only titles as rank, and position in line in class. There were two belts though, a black sash, (which noted your belonging to the school) and an underbelt which was awarded when you finished the initial set of the school to the satisfaction of the teacher.

    It is a growth out of the rank glut and inflation out there. Few customers really take 'caveat emptor' seriously enough to find out what a martial arts instructor is really offering, or if they actually have the needed skills to offer it appropriately.

    *END SIDEBAR>BACK TO THREAD*
  3. judoist is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2010 3:59pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Nis Tai Chi Academy

    A friend of mine invited me for some cross training in tai chi. I agreed to come to the class, but I wanted to see just what these guys were doing. As soon as we started talking, I noticed that he wasn't very knowledgeable and that he was just trying to recruit me. I raised some questions about the technical problems that might come up if I cross train extensively. He said that it would "make my Judo more powerful". I agreed to come to one of the training sessions. When we arrived to the class, they were already training. The head instructor took the time to talk to me personally, and wasn't happy when he heard that I was a judoka. He pointed out that they used the same kyu/dan system as in judo, but that there were 9 kyu ranks. When we finally started, the forms had names like "Crane opening it's wings" and "Mantis". They weren't exactly consistent with the movements: for example, first you make an "energy ball", and then you can either "shrink the ball" or "open the fan". After that, the head instructor "Ljuba", came in (an assistant was teaching the entire class up until that point), and then proceeded to seperate the class: the advanced students and the assistant did a few "battles", and the head instuctor and three of us practiced footwork. To be fair, I have to say that the guy wasn't exactly that bad. He emhasised footwork and stances, and pointed out that when footwork is "taken down", the hand movements come naturally. However, the guy's assistant isn't that good, so his teaching skills aren't really backed up. The guy also made some "distinction" between the male and female students in the cool-down execises - in one sequence the males had to put the left thumb in the right hand, while the female students did the opposite. When class was over, the guy had a very severe warning for my friend. The instructor wasn't really in the mood to talk the problem through or search for an "alternative solution" and he talked about it in class. When I asked him how much the membership costs, he said that it was 1500 dinars (since most of you aren't Sebian or aware of the problems here, let me make a comparison: my Judo club membership is half of this fee, and with about 15-20 students, the instructor made a nice chunk of change, especially since the assistant was "volunteering", and didn't get paid). Finally, when class was over, I had the time to examine the setting well enough: the "kwoon" was a medium sized room in a community center they share with a kendo club, and the only other room we had was a changing room (only one). This was unnaceptable considering the membership fee. In the end, the community center was in a bad part of town, so I wouldn't be suprised if some of his students were mugged or beaten up, considering the unrealistic, karate/TKD style attacks that were drilled and drilled against in class. I was relieved when I got to my neighbourhood. As we were going home, my friend mentioned that his legs hurt like hell from the exercises we did in class, while me and a kickboxer whom I met in class hardly broke a sweat.

    -The head instructor claimed to posess a 4th dan in tai chi and that his school uses virtually the same rank system as judo. However, there was no diploma/certificate displayed, and the Academy isn't part of any organisation or sanctioning body for Tai Chi Chuan

    -He claimed that he had a solid 35 years of training behind him, in both TCC and other MA, but he refused to specify which arts he cross trained in. In addition to this, he looks about 40-41, which means that if his claim was true, he had to have started training at the age of 5.

    -He claimed to be able to teach "combat throws" that would make my Judo "even more powerful". My friend also made that statement when he was trying to persuade me to come and train.

    -I also overheard two seniors say that today's class was "heavy on takedowns and throws".

    -He didn't want to talk about his lineage, something the guys from the CMA forum warned me about. The thread which I put up and got this response in:

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...t=97685&page=3 - Rivington is a Tai Chi practicioner, and his response is the one you should be looking at.

    -He claimed to prepare students for full-contact cometitions, but there wasn't any hard sparring in class, despite a bevy of "advanced students" present. As stated above, the academy in question isn't a part of any TCC organisation.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    My biggest concern is my friend. The guy is naive, but he's a good kid. I really want to get him out of this McDojo. If you have any ideas, please write about them too. Thank you in advance.
  4. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/28/2010 4:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, some of that stuff is fine, or at least typical.

    Lots of people aren't part of any TCC organization, or if they are, the org is basically one guy and his disciples. CMA isn't like JMA—we keep it all loosey-goosey. If you want to know if someone is good, try 'em out.

    Terms in the form can be loosey-goosey as well. To a certain extent, where one move ends and another begins depends on the practitioner. It's not unusual for the Chen long form to be counted as having 88 moves or 108 (Chen Yu, perversely, has an 89 move form despite 88 being a far luckier number) despite there being few differences in the supposedly "different" forms.

    The gender differential in cooldown is just a bit of magical thinking. It's stupid, and lots of people get rid of it, but it's not something he came up with on his own.

    If you don't like the neighborhood, don't go. It's pretty silly to guess that his students are being mugged though. Many CMA schools don't have a lot of equipment or space. Even great masters often just teach in a park, and have little more than a flag to identify where to meet. It's not unusual at all for even the "indoor" class of some teacher just to meet in the teacher's house, with maybe a mattress propped up against a wall or a mud puddle in the backyard to soften blows. Again, CMAs ain't necessarily like judo.

    All that aside, it is suspicious that the cat isn't more forthcoming with his lineage. If you didn't like what he had to show you, throw-wise, don't go there. I don't know if anything you've said rises to the level of bullshido, however. He just sounds like a mediocre player who isn't teaching beginners what you want to know. Maybe he doesn't know it, maybe he ain't sharing it, maybe he has it and you need to give it more than one lesson. (How much did you learn after your first trial judo lesson?) This is more like a topic for the CMA forum or YMAS than MABS, unless you have something juicier.

    By all means, if you're not comfortable with the class, instructor, set-up, or fee, don't continue.
  5. CoffeeFan is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/28/2010 4:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO/BJJ/Judo and others

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So what your saying is you don't like the guy, you think he is too expensive, Tai Chi sucks and is of no benifit to you, and he's full of BS.

    What your lacking is any kind of distinctive claim or any kind of proof, this is going to go into YMAS very quickly
  6. judoist is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2010 4:40pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Well, some of that stuff is fine, or at least typical.

    Lots of people aren't part of any TCC organization, or if they are, the org is basically one guy and his disciples. CMA isn't like JMA—we keep it all loosey-goosey. If you want to know if someone is good, try 'em out.

    Terms in the form can be loosey-goosey as well. To a certain extent, where one move ends and another begins depends on the practitioner. It's not unusual for the Chen long form to be counted as having 88 moves or 108 (Chen Yu, perversely, has an 89 move form despite 88 being a far luckier number) despite there being few differences in the supposedly "different" forms.

    The gender differential in cooldown is just a bit of magical thinking. It's stupid, and lots of people get rid of it, but it's not something he came up with on his own.

    If you don't like the neighborhood, don't go. It's pretty silly to guess that his students are being mugged though. Many CMA schools don't have a lot of equipment or space. Even great masters often just teach in a park, and have little more than a flag to identify where to meet. It's not unusual at all for even the "indoor" class of some teacher just to meet in the teacher's house, with maybe a mattress propped up against a wall or a mud puddle in the backyard to soften blows. Again, CMAs ain't necessarily like judo.

    All that aside, it is suspicious that the cat isn't more forthcoming with his lineage. If you didn't like what he had to show you, throw-wise, don't go there. I don't know if anything you've said rises to the level of bullshido, however. He just sounds like a mediocre player who isn't teaching beginners what you want to know. Maybe he doesn't know it, maybe he ain't sharing it, maybe he has it and you need to give it more than one lesson. (How much did you learn after your first trial judo lesson?) This is more like a topic for the CMA forum or YMAS than MABS, unless you have something juicier.

    By all means, if you're not comfortable with the class, instructor, set-up, or fee, don't continue.
    OK, I agree that you are an individual with a lot of experience than me, especially in TCC. But the guy was stressing that point about tha gender difference to the point where he was warning me about the importance of this differentiation.
    I heard that William Chow often taught in the parks, but with this training fee, he should be able to provide lots of equpment for training and still make a comfortable living, unless he is greedy.
    Like I said: this is Serbia I'm talking about. One of the things I forgot to say is that the guy's instruction is waaaaay lower quality than other MA instructors in my hometown. I do have experience in the way karate, judo, wing chun, escrima and kendo are taught in my country, and this guy is falling behind of everyone. This wasn't a hyperbole. The guy even claimed that he could teach "more powerful Judo" than my Judo sensei. That isn't just basic magical thinking. The guy was actively trying to draw me away from my judo club. That is called "illegal business practices" in both US and Serbia.
    Also, I didn't tell him that I was intersted in throwing techniques. I didn't even tell him personally that I was a judoka, my friend told him. As soon as he heard it, he paused, looked like he was trying to hide some concern, and started talking about being able to teach better Judo than my Judo sensei, even though he teaches TCC. I am sorry that I didn't clarify this in my original post, but the guy was up to no-good.
    Last edited by judoist; 6/28/2010 4:53pm at .
  7. CoffeeFan is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/28/2010 4:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO/BJJ/Judo and others

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoist View Post
    The guy was actively trying to draw me away from my judo club. That is called "illegal business practices" in both US and Serbia.
    Perhaps I missed it, how is him telling you to train Tai Chi illegal?
  8. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/28/2010 4:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by judoist View Post
    That is called "illegal business practices" in both US and Serbia.
    I'm not familiar with Serbian business law, but in the US one can certainly say all sorts of things, such as "I can make your judo more powerful"* if they think they can (and if there is no clear measure of how powerful one's judo is). Puffery is just a bit of caveat emptor.

    If he's charging too much, then he won't have that many students. Also, he may be charging different folks different amounts. Sometimes, especially in CMA, fees start out high, then become "pay me what you think I'm worth", and then become, "you don't need to pay me if it is a hardship at all." Sometimes that never happens, of course. Maybe the guy's a rip-off, but if there isn't a lot of taiji in the area, that can happen.

    What's the guy's name?


    *If you practice diligently is implied.
  9. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2010 5:58pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Trying to poach you from your Judo club is certainly unethical on some level, but I highly doubt it's illegal.

    Him telling you he can teach you Judo better than your Judo coach is pretty laughable though.

    When I go into another school I make it pretty clear I want to learn what they're teaching on its own merits, not to make my Judo stronger or some such bollocks. That's if previous training even comes up, mostly it won't, except if the arts are real closely related like BJJ.

    Dabbling is a dangerous trap to fall into, often you end up learning just enough to make you look stupid.
    Last edited by Lu Tze; 6/28/2010 6:02pm at .
  10. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/28/2010 6:15pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey now, judoist went to the club with his pal; it's not like the TCC guy was hanging around outside the dojo, looking to recruit students.
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