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  1. Rock Ape is online now
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 11:07pm

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just for the record, I questioned Mark's motives and some of his conduct, not his knowledge of Judo.

    It was obvious from the start of this that something was sticking pins in his tits far more than an issue of a sankyu some 25 years ago. In my opinion he allowed his personal relationship with the Moose household to influence his motivation.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
      #371
  2. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 11:18pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GirlJock View Post
    The entire dust up was from Tripp calling me a mouthpiece for chuck when I asked my first question. It was a jack ass comment. He shouldn't of assumed (though I realize that is your perception and not his words)
    Not saying you're the one who agitated him. He was already fully agitated by the time you two got into it.

    No I don't.
    Fair enough, but that's what happened.

    Psychology with a focus on research in the area of neuroscience.
    Thanks.

    Umm...no. I would think the professor would back up his claims with research and show the students why he is correct. If he can not, then he isn't worth his salary and should resign. If the professor can not handle critical thinking questions from students, again, they need to resign.
    Suppose you are said professor. Suppose that you tell your Psych 101 class that no satisfactory solution to the Mind/Body problem exists. Suppose your students claim that you can not make such a claim because you have not read every article in every journal, and so you may have missed it. Now, as an active member of the field, you know that no such solution has been published, else you would be aware of it. Your professional awareness of your own field essentially eliminates this possibility. Your students, from their point of view, may see your rejection of this possibility as closed minded or sloppy, but from your point of view as an expert you can see clearly that an exhaustive review of the literature is unnecessary.

    Maybe that rings true, and maybe it does not, but I hope you can see how it applies.

    BTW, no one was questioning Tripps Judo knowledge.
    From his perspective, for the reasons alluded to by analogy above, he felt people were.

    I agree with others, this judo thing really is secondary to everything else that he is claimed to have done. But I'm not sure that is a reason to do a sloppy investigation.
    There is never a reason for doing a half assed job. At the end of the day I think Tripp should accept other people's need to check for themselves, and y'all should accept his being legit insulted that you wouldn't take his word for it.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
      #372
  3. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 11:26pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
    People also seem willing to use common sense regarding the psychology of lying. Truly? to beat a sociopath let him/her know how fucking smart they are and then let their ego do the rest.
    You nailed it.

    Its good to see the unity. I do feel for Chuck but as Matt said really bad things could happen if he had continued to operate and I have my opinions about some of his other work.
    It was a painful extraction with lots of screaming.

    I feel bad that some people feel the loss of a friend. Anyone who feels that way you have my condolences.
    Thank you. I counted him as a friend for almost 3 years. This whole thing sucks.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
      #373
  4. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 11:27pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    For whatever reason my self-ban seems to have lifted.

    @staff please look into restoring it

    Since I have the ability to post I want to throw out some background on this:

    I am very familiar with M.I.T.; I went to middle school down the street from their campus, and had their engineers for elective science classes in 7th and 8th grade; I played D&D at the M.I.T. Strategic Game Society rooms in the Walker Memorial building every Sunday from age 12 to age 15 (1978-81); I learned to program there as a child. As a university student I studied formal logic with Jim Higginbotham (MIT linguistics and philosophy dept) at Harvard summer school, and both cognitive science and semantics with Ray Jackendoff (PhD from the same department) while at Brandeis. Ray was one of Chomsky's first graduate students and would bring us to hear him teach at M.I.T. several times a semester. I once had a summer job putting up fliers for various events all over campus. In short, I know the place about as well as anyone can who has not actually attended or been on staff there.

    Chuck also told me he had received a MS in Computer Science there. He made several comments to me indicating a detailed knowledge of the campus and surrounding area. He has definitely been in and around that part of Cambridge, and I tended to believe him. Still, I recently entered his gmail address into a tool SamboSteve introduced me to http://www.yoname.com/search.aspx?s=chardin%40gmail.com (edit: you'll have to click the YO! button again yourself) and found a myspace page at http://www.myspace.com/113497002 that lists his educational status as "College Graduate" and not "Master's Degree". This inspired me to call the registrar and check, and, as we now know, there has never been anyone by that name enrolled in as much as a single course there. The employee I spoke with told me they used the search "ch* hardi*" and found not a single result (ie: no Chuck Hardin, Chas Harding, Charlie Hardinn, or the like).

    In retrospect, Chuck said several things that should have made me suspicious:

    He did not know that the Electrical Engineering and Computer Science departments are one and the same at M.I.T.

    He did not know where the centrally located Walker Memorial building was.

    He did not know who Prof. Michael Sipser is. Sipser's text Introduction to the Theory of Computation is standard (even I own it), and his course of the same name is almost impossible to avoid if you are studying EE and CS.

    Chuck's spouse Susan/Steven Dorsher demostrably DID attend M.I.T., and I suspect what details Chuck does have, he gleaned from either conversation with Dorsher, or time spent visiting the campus durring courtship.

    Nobody says they "went" to M.I.T. except to mean they attended. I used to work for Harvard University; I have a full semester's worth of courses completed there; I have been both a staff member and a teaching fellow there, and learned everything I know about molecular biology as a closed door student of a member of the faculty. I did not "go" to Harvard.

    also, @DSimon, M.I.T. is in Kendal SQ/Area 4. Harvard is in Harvard SQ. :P

    FTR, I want to say that I no longer object to anyone running down info on Kitz. It should be done, for the sake of completeness. I'm not sure who Tripp spoke to, but I was able to reach Jeff Beish and had the following exchange with him:



    Which is pretty much what one would expect, as Armed Forces Judo was mostly absorbed into the USJF when that org was formed.

    If you take a look at Jeff's webpage, you will see his connection to Bergstrom Judo and Austin area military Judo clubs ( http://www.alpo-astronomy.org/jbeish/Resume_of_Judo.htm )


    Again @Staff please restore my self-ban.
    The AFJA (Armed Forced Judo Association) was the yudanshakai of the USJF that formed the USJA. Phil Porter was an officer in the USAF.

    Just an FYI.

    Ben
      #374
  5. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 11:32pm

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     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo Stiglitz View Post
    Just for the record, I questioned Mark's motives and some of his conduct, not his knowledge of Judo.

    It was obvious from the start of this that something was sticking pins in his tits far more than an issue of a sankyu some 25 years ago. In my opinion he allowed his personal relationship with the Moose household to influence his motivation.
    Dave, you are completely off base here. He did not know about the thing with Moose's dad until well after the gong sau and MABS threads were begun. No one knew. It came out by accident while I was talking to Mark about something else. He had part of the story, and I had the other part.

    If Mark had know it was Chuck all along, he would have raised a stink about it the day he got that info. What he did know (by the time of the gong sau) was everthing else (SSNs etc) which he obviously found disturbing. If you go back to the original thread and find Mark's first post about the Moose thing, that is the day after we figured that out.

    Edit: My original post was at 06-20-2010, 02:19 AM. Tripp's first post about the Moose thing was on 06-22-2010, 11:50 PM. My best guess is that the Gong Sau thread was about 36 hours old when we figured out what had happened with Moose's dad's info.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 7/13/2010 11:55pm at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
      #375
  6. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2010 11:37pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    The AFJA (Armed Forced Judo Association) was the yudanshakai of the USJF that formed the USJA. Phil Porter was an officer in the USAF.

    Just an FYI.

    Ben
    Is that like an ocean of black belts?
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
      #376
  7. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2010 12:05am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    GJ, this entire dustup between you and Tripp is a result of you missing post #81 quoted below. You didn't realize you missed it, and Mark assumed you were ignoring it to be obtuse. Note that Ben introduced this information well before you did, and that your searching found the exact same exceptional case that his memory recalled.
    Matt, thanks, you just saved me from having to dig up that post and explain her error to her. I was debating if it would be worthwhile as I was catching up on this thread.

    This also shows that I pointed out facts that contradicted Mark's line of reasoning.

    If you want my "professional" opinion, it is highly unlikely (and I think I posted in a similar vein in this thread or perhaps the YMAS thread), that there were any independently insured judo shiai back in the 80's. The fact that Gerald Lafon and some other Judo America affiliates do so NOW doesn't really significantly raise the probability that it happened in 1985 on Bergstrom AFB in Austin. I competed in sanctioned events in Austin, Dallas, Houston, Midland-Odessa, and Ft.Worth, Denton, multiple times between 1981 and the mid-'90s, and I never competed at Bergstrom, or any other military base in Texas. As I was on the march to get experience and tournament points towards further promotion, I went to every available shiai I could.

    I did compete, in the early late '80s early 90s (I can't remember exact dates), at two different sanctioned event in Pensacola at one of the bases there. In fact, Robby Robinson, mentioned earlier, put on both of those. At the first one, Phil Porter put on a big Judo clinic, with a shiai afterwards. I'll never forget because he offered to promote me to nidan or sandan, if I would join USJA.

    You also need to understand that Mark was trying to argue from shakey logical construct based on some micro-fine point that unsanctioned Judo events are/were basically"non Judo events" because they do not count towards promotion points, service points,etc, in the mainstream Judo world. This of course is putting a very fine edge on it.

    To sum up, I agree with Mark that it is highly unlikely that an unsanctioned shiai took place at Bergstrom, for some, but not all of HIS reasons/reasoning.

    I agree with Mark that Mr. Kitz was a product of Phil Porters "promotional tours" back in the day, for basically the reasons he pointed out. No record of promotions previous to shodan, and no activity or clubs registered to him afterwards strongly suggest this, plus his previous activites that Chuck noted (if he did not make that up as well).

    Frankly, I don't care about what Chuck did or did not do judo-wise. If anyone wants to, they can find Mr.Kitz and call him and ask him about his activities. I think that would be pretty rude to drag him into this "investigation", though. It's not his fault that Chuck dragged him into this morasse.

    Ben
      #377
  8. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2010 12:13am

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     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you Ben. Your opinion carries a lot of weight, as you are not only a senior Judoka, but native to the area in question. I agree that Kitz has no stake in this, but, for the sake of putting this to bed, and for the health of the community, I hope that you will handle the initial contact with Kitz personally. That is the only way to ensure that the matter is handled in a manner that you personally do not object to.

    Edit: I also expect that Mark would take no offense at all at your criticism of his reasoning, as you are equally entitled to an expert opinion of your own.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 7/14/2010 12:22am at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
      #378
  9. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2010 12:25am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    Is that like an ocean of black belts?
    Not sure if your are making some sort of obscure joke/play on words. I see one error it is Armed ForceS Judo Association.

    Yudanshakai means "black belt group/association", being "yudansha" and "kai". The USJF, formerly the JBBF (Judo Black Belt Federation", is made up of regional groups called "yudanshakai".

    Yudansha are "those that are graded,or those with grade", i.e., blackbelts. Mudansha are "those without grade", i.e., every thing under black belt. You know, the same thing as the famous answer to a certain Zean Koan "Mu!". Or, what did the Zen cow say?

    Ben
      #379
  10. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2010 12:36am

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Phillips View Post
    Thank you Ben. Your opinion carries a lot of weight, as you are not only a senior Judoka, but native to the area in question. I agree that Kitz has no stake in this, but, for the sake of putting this to bed, and for the health of the community, I hope that you will handle the initial contact with Kitz personally. That is the only way to ensure that the matter is handled in a manner that you personally do not object to.

    Edit: I also expect that Mark would take no offense at all at your criticism of his reasoning, as you are equally entitled to an expert opinion of your own.
    Matt,

    I won't be contacting Mr. Kitz. I'd be embarassed to even attempt to explain to him why I want the information from him. It's simply not meaningful enough to me to do so.

    Others may think differently, and that's their perogative.

    And BTW, I'm hardly a senior Judoka. My rank is sandan (I assume somebody vouched for me regarding my black belt tag, and/or called USA Judo, likely Coach Josh, as he has first hand knowledge of my rank and skill level.)

    I'm glad to help out with what I know technically, administratively, and historically regarding Judo, but I do not represent any judo organization, and I am far from the final authority on anything "judo".

    Ben
      #380

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