Thread: Chuck Hardin's Judo claims...
6/22/2010 11:56am, #11
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
This borders on the absurd and whatever staff asked you to do this should apologize.
As a 14 year old kid you wear whatever belt your instructor tells you to wear and you're whatever rank your instructor tells you are. Maybe the instructor gets the organization paperwork done, maybe he doesn't. At such a low rank it barely matters.
The USJA has very nice system for juniors -- in theory. But how many people actually follow it? Or, in the real world, distinguishes between the junior grades and the senior kyu grades?
Just as an example, I don't think my instructor even bothers with the paperwork below sankyu for seniors, and that's only so you qualify to get points at the USJF promotional shiai. He certainly doesn't do formal tests for kyu ranks. You do your kata in front of the board for dan ranks once you have the points.
6/22/2010 12:04pm, #12
Here you go Mark..
If you felt that my post was an insult to you than you have my full and unreserved apology.
The "game show" comment wasn't specifically directed at you as an individual although, clearly that's how you've taken it, it was a reference to several other threads that have been created.
I have nothing further to say other than to comment on the hypocrisy of your post to Raging Monkey.
Apparently its not OK for me to "insult" you, but its perfectly acceptable for you to tell everyone here to "**** yourselves" ?"To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
6/22/2010 12:06pm, #13
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
6/22/2010 12:17pm, #14
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
I'm saying my instructor is a USJF/KDK rokudan with about 40 years of experience. He knows damn well what rank someone should be from observing uchi komi, randori and other practice. At the kyu ranks, it's more about what division you should be fighting in than anything else.
6/22/2010 12:43pm, #15
As I have shown, there is a serious problem with the claims of rank made by Mr. Hardin. He was a junior at the time, and yet claims to have earned senior rank.
I have personal experience with this issue, because when Frank Hubbard, the Coach at the Budokan Judo club in Dearborn MI, tried to make me Brown Belt with the USJA WAY back in 1969, he was told I was a junior and could not be made a Sankyu. Frank wrote back and said you should see how big he is! We simply waited until I was 17 and then moved me into the senior program.
Mr. Hardin would HAVE to have earned ranks prior to the brown, or even the green belt. Even if the senior rank system were used, there would have to be a promotion for Rokyu (Yellow Belt) and then Gokyu (Orange Belt) BEFORE we get to Yokyu (Green Belt) and then Sankyu (Brown belt, 3rd degree). Every one of those promotions would have required testing, promotion papers filled out, paid for, and signed, and then the receipt of said promotion packet. Every one of them would have been entered into the database at USJA headquarters.
However, as a junior he would have had to go through 10 separate promotions testing’s to get to brown belt (Junior 11th degree.) If the belt was green rather than brown, and I would think Mr. Hardin should remember the color as it was the LAST rank he earned in Judo, then he would have only had 5 separate promotions to have gone through as a junior. BUT, as I said, each and every one of those would require a new test, forms, and promotion packet. EVERY one would generate a new rank/membership card with USJA.
Obviously you would have to be a member of USJA to get these promotions.
IF Mr. Hardin was a junior ranked player, who then became a senior ranked player, there is a form to be filled out and submitted to move a player from junior to senior status. Again, I did this with my player Josh Gilbert at a Spirit of the Eagle Camp years ago.
The point is, there would be a paper trail if ANY of these events took place.
Sadly, using as many different spellings as I could think of, USJA has NO record of Mr. Hardin. In point of fact, they have NO Hardin in the database at all. No promotions, no membership, nothing on him at all.
This becomes more troubling when the question of attendance at Shiai (tournaments) comes up. Of course we are speaking of sanctioned Shiai. EVERY judo group in the US frowns on unsanctioned shiai’s due to the lack of insurance, and the liability issues of their coaches being sued at an unsanctioned event. ANY coach who takes players to unsanctioned events is subject to severe punishment including stripping them of ranks and certifications and membership.
There is simply no way the Junior Shiai’s were unsanctioned which means you would HAVE to be a member of USJI, USJA, or USJF to get on the mat. EVERYONE on the mat would have to be. If even one person was on that mat and uninsured, it voids the insurance for the entire event. Again, use the web site to look up sanctions for tournaments and you will see the guidelines.
Mr. Hardin claims his father registered him for his Shiai. If this happened, where is the record of his membership? The check would have been made out to USJA and given to the tournament director. It is the tournament director NOT the club coach who registers and files the paperwork for the new members at the Shiai. Failure to do this is unheard of, as it opens them up for a liability claim. I have NEVER heard of someone joining one of the Judo groups at a Shiai and not getting their membership materials.
More to the point, when Mr. Hardin went to his second Shiai, he would have had to present his membership card. You cannot play unless you are a member. Even if his coach kept all the promotion money, and issued dojo papers for his rank, you could NOT fight in ANY Judo Shiai without a membership card.
Mr. Hardin says his club was a USJA club, and that he checked out his Coach. So, again, we have a major problem, if you cannot fight in a Shiai without being a member, and the USJA says Mr. Hardin has NEVER been a member, then there is only one sad conclusion to be drawn. The entire story simply cannot be true in the face of the facts of this story.
I have no idea what Mr. Hardin did or did not do in his youth. I do know that USJA has NO evidence to support any of his claims of efforts in Judo. Based on my personal knowledge of how the Judo world works in the US, I have no other choice but to say that the story as related by Mr. Hardin is clearly false.
I leave it to this forum and board as to what they wish to do with this information. As for me it is VERY plain that the current belief is that you must either side with Chuck or Matt, and woe to you for your choice!
I have NOT chosen sides; I have simply researched claims about Judo. People who have been respectful to me here, no longer are. I cannot “ignore” insulting comments from people in positions of power, and frankly they all should be thrilled THEY didn’t have to do the job they asked me to.
It galls me all the more when I see that the person who actually caused this **** storm has now got EVERYTHING he wanted. The site is disrupted, and I will NOT be here any more either. So many of you are such fools…
Good luck guys, but this is my stop. I now return, to the shadows."Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
6/22/2010 12:49pm, #16
I just wanted to say thank you.
I've only been on this form for a short while, but every thread you've written and comment you've left shows knowledge and sincerity. I think that you've done an excellent investigation while seperating it from the other issues surrounding this matter.
6/22/2010 1:02pm, #17
6/22/2010 1:03pm, #18
Alrighty. I will cull and then I will close this thread if you guys can't stay on topic. We have 4-5 active threads surrounding all the drama. Stick to CY and the rank/training issues.
If you want to show support for CY do it in this thread:
I Challenge Chuck Hardin AKA Cy Q Faunce - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
You want to bitch about Site policies here you go:
Current culture on Bullshido. - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
You want to show support for War Wheel:
I Challenge Chuck Hardin AKA Cy Q Faunce - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
If you want real gong sau drama:
Tis the Season for Meaningless Gong Saus - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Before any of you say it there are YMAS/trollshido threads for all recent investigations including MTripp, Phrost, Mine, Ders, Matt Morton, Jason Brinn, Jayson Mayhew, Ralph Severe, and so on.
Oh sorry Brinn good bye.
So, if you feel it is favoritism I gave you threads.
Newest Cull soon to be fixed.
YMAS CY MABS cull - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Last edited by It is Fake; 6/22/2010 8:15pm at .
6/22/2010 3:43pm, #19
I know I'm going to get **** for this, but I don't yet see this as "Chuck lied". Chuck was 14-17 years old. Certainly at the time he had no reason not to believe his coach. If, and this is only IF, just relax before you guys get all frothy in the chops on me, his coach told him he had a certain rank, gave him a belt and a piece of paper and sent him on his way then that's not the same as Chuck lying about his experience.
I imagine everyone will immediately start screaming about how I'm blind and refusing to see the light and all that, so just hold off on that for a minute. Has anyone attempted to verify any of the information about the club or the coach that Chuck listed or did it stop with just making sure Chuck was never listed with the USJA? Clearly Chuck does not have a legitimate USJA brown belt of any kind, that does not automatically make Chuck a liar. It just means he was wrong.
Would anyone like to look into his coach and the club? I will do so, but I'm also once again clearly advocating on Chucks side, so that's probably no the best idea.
6/22/2010 3:52pm, #20
The point is not the belt.
It's the shiai.
And the point is, even if it's only partly true, it's already a lie.
And the point is, the admins, the "Old Ones" are against him, and many are leaving or have left already.
If I have to choose twenty good men against one possible liar,
my choice is clear.