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  1. Karma is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2004 4:35pm


     Style: Personal

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Evolution of Judo

    I found this on another forum and thought it was very interesting :


    Judo does evolve. The reason BJJ seems to have the upper hand is because it has no form. It is undeveloped, raw technique, which is why the fighters end up rolling around on the mat for quite a while, instead of throw, sprawl, pin, like so many other grappling arts. When you take Judo, you will feel the difference.

    Okay, let me rephrase to give credit where it's due : BJJ is more flexible and adaptive, but the more traditional styles are more precise and have much sharper technique. That's why I think that in the "streets" Judoka have the upper hand.

    BJJ is more adaptable, Judo is more precise. But any good fighter with half a brain will make the most of their system and and take all advantages possible.
    Do you think Judo has/is evolving ?
    Last edited by Karma; 2/22/2004 4:38pm at .
  2. Middlemoor is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2004 7:03pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't tell people how they train.
  3. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2004 7:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Seconded.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  4. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2004 7:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The reason BJJ doesn't END with a pin is that fights don't end with a pin.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  5. Choke is offline

    The REAL thread killer

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2004 7:21pm


     Style: World 10-3 Ryu Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BJJ isn't refined? Give me a break.
    "The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about anything, and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to verify my notions have only wasted my time."

    -- George Bernard Shaw
  6. JBliss is offline
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    Don't mess with the Mega-Buster

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2004 7:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: A+B, D-Pad

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    that really didn't make much sense
    Secret moves such as hitting a thing with your hand and hitting a thing with your leg have been stolen and degenerated by arts like karate, boxing, muay-thai, Kung-fu, and basketball. -Epicurious

    I for one welcome our new Ninja overlords.
    -Whiteshark

    I figure fighting a group of chunners would be like water torture, its not the force as such, just the constant trickle of chain punches wearing down your sanity. -The Juggernoob
  7. mikus is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2004 8:01pm


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you want to talk about whether or not ending a fight with a pin is realistic, what about being penalized for backing out of guard?

    I think a sub grappling competition aimed at realism would be somewhat close to Sambo rules, with chokes allowed.

    But yes, that was stupid. BJJ is definately a very refined art.
    Last edited by mikus; 2/22/2004 8:15pm at .
    You want some birth control? You can smoke a cigarette.
  8. Karma is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2004 9:40pm


     Style: Personal

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Guys,

    I copied it from another thread because I taught it was provocative.

    My personal opinion is that BJJ is highly refined and its efficiency lies exactly on the subtle and somewhat "invisible" details that can be better felt than explained.

    But what I was interested to know from you was if Judo was/is evolving or if it's a stagnated art.
  9. Nihilanthic is offline

    Decafinated white belt.

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    Posted On:
    2/22/2004 9:52pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judo is stagnated by its rules. Its just throw pin in competition.

    If Judo sparred and had tourneys with rules more like open grapple tourneys it would evolve again. If all it does is this restrictive judo-style throwing contests and little to no subbing, thats all its going to be.
    Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."
  10. bunyip is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2004 10:24pm

    hall of fame
     Style: jits with hits

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judo is purposely prevented from evolving. When sambo guys came in with their unusual grips and started beating up the judo guys, instead of adjusting the style to the new challenges, the grips were just outlawed. When wrestlers started taking down all the judo guys, instead of learning to outwrestle them, they just penalized the throws. The only "evolution" that springs to mind is finally reinstituting the triangle choke (although you still can't pull down on the head).
    "I'm offering straight punch, kick while downed to the ribs or head, and of course- the german suplex...which is one suplex quickly followed by another." - Guerilla Fists

    Matt Thornton explains "aliveness": http://www.bullshido.com/videos/sbg2.wmv

    West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu thread
    West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu archive thread
    (experiment to see if I can boost the thread's Google rank)

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