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  1. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2010 12:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
    Well, I have fought full contact as you say with guys from other traditions who wanted to hurt me and show me how tough they were. I did fine. I would not say it is useless. Some people do not know how they do under the effects of massive amounts of adrenaline and an opponent striking as hard as they can and attempting to break things.
    Unless you have been there and done that you are just fantasizing. NO ONE knows what is it like to fight unless they have fought. Period, end of story.
    However I have been in living encounters with people using lethal force, half of those they had weapons.
    Please describe these lethal force situations. Not only where and how you fought people with weapons and won, but the situations in which people had lethal bare hands and feet.

    I think you are talking out of your ass. With like a 8% bit of truth.
    I found them to be extremely different experiences and I do not believe that full contact prepares for those sorts of engagements.
    The goal is to train as closely to the actual act. Full contact MMA is the closest thinq to a real fight you are going to get.
    I felt better prepared because of the types of training that I have done.
    Please list and explain these superior training methods that have prepared you better for those lethal street confrontations and full contacts matches.


    The rest of your post doesn't apply and I will discuss that with you later. In order for me to be more specific in my original question you will have have to have answered the questions. Now I am off for an MRI should be back ( lol ) in a couple hours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  2. Taliesin is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2010 12:38pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Budo Taijutsu, Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I recommend you not try and goad people and say they are talking out of their asses therby calling them liers. Its rude and you do not know what you are talking about.

    Since this is going in a direction I do not intent to go I am ending this now and will not be checking these posts anymore. I am not here for debate, nor to attack anyone with words online.

    Good luck with your training and have fun on here. Bye
  3. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2010 2:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
    Since this is going in a direction I do not intent to go I am ending this now and will not be checking these posts anymore.
    In other words you cannot defend your position and are running away because you were questioned.

    Nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  4. nomamao is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/09/2010 1:13am


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, when somebody tries to rob him at wiffleball bat point, he'll be more than ready to deal with it.
  5. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/09/2010 6:06pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Backfistmonkey View Post
    The goal is to train as closely to the actual act. Full contact MMA is the closest thinq to a real fight you are going to get.
    Or Dog Brothers - style sparring or similar for weapons and/or multiple attackers.

    In general, you should actually be able to test your **** semi-safely to see if it actually works. ****, I've grappled with people allowing them eye-gouges, fish-hooking, small joint manipulation, and the dreaded pressure-points. These were people who trained in this stuff. **** didn't work much.

    Why? Because they had never been able to try it on someone who was actually resisting them.

    On top of that, my simple techniques (pick them up, toss them down, pin them) were well tested and easier to execute than their small motor, finesse-based tricks. The big stuff (big throw, pin, right cross to face, etc) is much easier to pull off even if it's not perfect. And it's much easier to actually test in a live manner against a training partner.

    Small little finesse moves, while occasionally effective, can be a lot more difficult to actually execute. For instance for something like eye jabs, if your opponent moves their head a fraction of an inch, it is a nearly worthless attack. It's also hard to train eye jabs for real, as most training partners don't enjoy getting their eyeballs gouged.

    Other supposed dangerous techniques simply aren't as reliable. i.e. Kicks to the knee are completely legal in most mma. They are very occasionally effective, but landing catastrophic damage to an opponent's knee is rarer than some traditional schools would have you believe. Ditto for neck cranks (potentially neck breaks) and many other techniques. Legal in mma, but not nearly as effective as they were originally presented.
  6. tim_stl is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2010 10:29am


     Style: fma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno View Post
    Other supposed dangerous techniques simply aren't as reliable. i.e. Kicks to the knee are completely legal in most mma. They are very occasionally effective, but landing catastrophic damage to an opponent's knee is rarer than some traditional schools would have you believe. Ditto for neck cranks (potentially neck breaks) and many other techniques. Legal in mma, but not nearly as effective as they were originally presented.
    not arguing with the rest of your assertions, but since it's a sporting match, the intent is not to destroy joints in a match, but to get a hold that can allow pressure to be put on a joint in a safe manner that elicits a submission. joint damage is as rare as it is in mma because it's accidental, i think. if causing joint damage was intentional, i would assume that it would be as about as common as a knockout [edit: except in submission holds], which only happens with a small percentage of strikes, but is still a worthwhile goal.



    tim
    Last edited by tim_stl; 9/10/2010 10:42am at .
  7. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2010 10:55am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The thing about small joint manipulation IMO is that you can use it quite effectively IF you've already got control via a large joint manipulation. For example if you've got a juji gatame or waki gatame kind of lock, you have enough control of their arm that they can't move it and can't attack you so if you want to, you could go for the smaller joints (which you don't really have to do, since in that position you could just attack the elbow and disable the arm). I sometimes do this to strip weapons away in training.
  8. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2010 1:57pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yep, positional dominance allows for you to take your pick of lots of things. In response to Tim's point, if you positionally dominate, you can leisurely apply a lock in a sporting avenue, and give your opponent time to tap. Of course, you could be a dick and just snap it on, going for damage. Combatively, this is what you would do.

    Ditto for small-joint manipulation. If you've got dominance, take your pick of what you like. Large joint or small joint.
  9. tim_stl is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2010 2:36pm


     Style: fma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno View Post
    In response to Tim's point, if you positionally dominate, you can leisurely apply a lock in a sporting avenue, and give your opponent time to tap. Of course, you could be a dick and just snap it on, going for damage. Combatively, this is what you would do.
    that's what i was saying - it isn't done, because destroying joints isn't the goal. that's why destroyed joints are rare, not because of a lack of efficacy.

    that said, yeah, most traditional martial arts schools greatly exaggerate the efficacy of those types of techniques. i just wanted to point out that the prominent reason for the rarity of results of that nature in mma is intent.



    tim
  10. ipponde is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/12/2010 8:21am


     Style: Southeast Asian MA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nomamao View Post
    lol @ that vid.

    Proper distance would change that whole exchange.
    Which video are we talking about?
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