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  1. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2010 2:33pm


     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am thinking O Goshi
  2. CoffeeFan is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2010 3:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO/BJJ/Judo and others

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wonko221 View Post
    Making a successful entry in a hip throw (including the shoulder throw) is all about breaking uke's balance in the direction you want to throw him. If the guy you're trying to throw is stable and you turn your back to him, he's just gonna grab you and eat your head.

    Learn to break his balance forward. If you get him to the point where he's using his grip on you to stabilize himself, he won't have much power to restrain or oppose you. Learn to enter so that he is falling onto your back, rather than you backing your hips into him. If your ass pushes him backward when you're trying to throw him forward, you're giving yourself more work.

    As for your feet, you want to stay on the balls of your feet and throw with them about shoulder width apart. Horse stance can give you power but you lose mobility, both in that your hips cannot turn much and that you cannot step again quickly if you need to. Feet too close together and you lose stability, which means you cannot generate much power from your stance.
    I agree with you on everything except the bringing you hips back into him. It actually can help finish a shoulder throw if your body is low enough and your not able to complete the throw. Some examples:

    YouTube- Black Belt Test - Clip 2, Shoulder Throw on a 300 pounder

    0:24. I'm not able to finish off the throw until I step my hips back into Big Freddie.

    YouTube- MMA queen Satoko Shinashi

    0:37. Better example.



    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    I am thinking O Goshi
    YouTube- O Goshi (Instruction)
  3. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2010 3:45pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think he's talking about classical/Japanese style ogoshi and the more splay-legged European/Russian style. To get your hips under uke's, you can either bend your knees or kind of split your legs. A bit like the difference between seoi nage and seoi otoshi. Horses for courses.

    Classical o goshi is rather difficult to do on a resisting opponent, honestly. The Georgian version (leg through the middle) works well, though. Harai goshi on the other hand ...
  4. CoffeeFan is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2010 3:57pm

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     Style: SAMBO/BJJ/Judo and others

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    I think he's talking about classical/Japanese style ogoshi and the more splay-legged European/Russian style. To get your hips under uke's, you can either bend your knees or kind of split your legs. A bit like the difference between seoi nage and seoi otoshi. Horses for courses.

    Classical o goshi is rather difficult to do on a resisting opponent, honestly. The Georgian version (leg through the middle) works well, though. Harai goshi on the other hand ...
    I personally haven't had too much problem with the classical set up, but I'm also a short guy. Good rule of thumb, whatever works and feels right for your body type.
  5. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2010 4:06pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeFan View Post
    I personally haven't had too much problem with the classical set up, but I'm also a short guy. Good rule of thumb, whatever works and feels right for your body type.
    I'm a short guy too. It could be that I just suck at o goshi. I know what I'm doing tonight for uchi komi!
  6. King Sleepless is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2010 4:21pm

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     Style: Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    I'm a short guy too. It could be that I just suck at o goshi. I know what I'm doing tonight for uchi komi!
    O Goshi is 2x easier than Uchi Mata or Harai Goshi.

    Here's a video of immamura sensei from like the 60's doing his train uchi mata.

    YouTube- imamura sensei
  7. judoist is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2010 5:09pm


     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    I have been getting back into grappling and have decided to put a few judo style throws into the mix.(Versions of the simple hip or shoulder type).

    I have been hesitant in the past because I did not want to give up my back but our stand up position is one side underhook and the other controls the wrist or elbow.(Standard wrestling clinch?).

    As far as I can work out I can shoot in for these throws withthout worrying too much about my back being controlled because I can either escape through the underhook or just go back to the wrestling clinch.

    Or I missed something?

    And antother quick one while I am here. I have learnt the legs together version of the hip throw rather than the squat vesion is there any difference in these two?
    I think that the side underhook + wrist grab is gonna be great. It's standard for powerful throws used in both Judo and MMA competitions ( e.g. harai goshi). The elbow grab is a bit risky, since the elbow is harder to grip than the wrist, and you should also take into account the sweat on the guy's skin.
  8. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2010 5:21pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A couple of things.
    1.) Hip throw does not equal "shoulder throw". In fact, there is no "shoulder throw" in Judo. Seoi Nage is "back carry throw". Two different principles involved.

    2.) Sirc posted a video of a Seoi Otoshi (judo terminology "back carry drop"). I would not suggest your use this in no gi where you can be choked, especially as you are a beginner.

    3.) You've gotten some great advice from others. Best advice is to find somebody who can actually teach you in person. There are a lot of points to throwing that are difficult to describe in words.

    Ben
  9. King Sleepless is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2010 6:46pm

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     Style: Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I didn't post any technique videos. ?
  10. wonko221 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2010 10:00pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    In fact, there is no "shoulder throw" in Judo. Seoi Nage is "back carry throw".
    <smartass> Kata guruma and i have to disagree! </smartass>

    but yeah, i was responding to OPs "shoulder throw" with the assumption he meant seoi nage. My point in my post was that anytime you turn your back on an opponent, you need to make sure that he's off-balance; a great way of doing this is by making his balance dependent on your body, and using your motion to get him to walk right up your back.

    This is also why i work to bring uke toward me as i get my fit, rather than backing into them.
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