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  1. Uncle Skippy is offline

    See my tongue. SEE IT!

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2010 11:37am

    Business Class Supporting Member
      Style: BJJ, MT, TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Science proves Aliveness(tm) works! SCIENCE!

    Well, not directly, but it was an observed phenomenon.

    Biomechanical analysis of the muscular power of martial arts athletes.
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/c0815960020t5015/

    (click on 'PDF (328.1KB)' to view the study)

    Basic premise:
    Quote Originally Posted by FTA
    This study uniquely showed that muscular enhancement capacity is not only related to the power capacity of contraction but also to motor coordination.
    Translation: power isn't solely dependent on muscle size/power capacity; coordination is a big factor. In other words, 'kinetic linking' and transitive power generation is real.

    Now here is the really interesting part. They studied TKD practitioners and 'kickboxing' practitioners and found this:

    Quote Originally Posted by FTA
    Our results indicate KB practitioners have similar muscular power to TKD practitioners who have trained five times longer, which was an unexpected result.
    Hmmm... kickboxers have similar power to TKD practitioners who have trained 5 times longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTA
    One of the differences of TKD and KB athletes is the training level steps. In TKD, there are 10 levels to reach the black belt [15, 29] and most of the time TKD training is based on attacks and counter-attack as if in an imaginary fight.
    Kickboxing (KB) athletes start their training similar to real fighting, and for sparring only basic knowledge of fighting is required. Therefore, for the match, the athlete develops physical preparation for fighting and athletes are constantly under such training without interruption [11]. According to Lin, the physical preparation is crucial for the technical preparation, which accelerates or prevents the development in ‘‘contact’’ sports, because force plays a decisive role in good technical implementation. The TKD athletes, despite their relatively low power of anaerobic resistance, have been successful in international competitions, due to their excellent skill and experience.
    TL;DR: Kickboxers begin training 'to fight' by sparring while TKD'ers begin training by doing moves in the air for an 'imaginary fight.'

    Summary: kickboxers who train with aliveness develop power and coordination about 5 times faster than TKD'ers who don't train with as much aliveness.

    The entire study is a short but good read. It really shows that overall power is a combination of muscle 'strength' AND coordination.

    The group who did this study have a few others that are martial arts related. I'm tracking them down.
  2. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2010 12:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

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    Saved for future arguments.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  3. Alucard619 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2010 12:11pm


     Style: The Way of Hand and Foot

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My fourth TKD class when I began training was sparring. So take that!


    In all seriousness pretty interesting. A buddy of mine just started training in Muay Thai and he says all the years of Taekwondo training made the transition to Muay Thai so much smoother.
  4. AustinHarry is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2010 1:46pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ/MT

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alucard619 View Post
    My fourth TKD class when I began training was sparring. So take that!


    In all seriousness pretty interesting. A buddy of mine just started training in Muay Thai and he says all the years of Taekwondo training made the transition to Muay Thai so much smoother.
    Sure a lot of TKD places spar but how do they spar? We sparred once or twice a week at the school I trained at as a kid. Better than not sparring, the problem was that we could not strike to the face, we could not kick legs, no clinching, no throws or trips. We also emphasized pulling back and not striking with full power, this led to a reliance on a lot of weak fast strikes.

    My TKD background helped with basic coordination and footwork in MT but it also gave me some bad habits that are hard to break.

    I think a TKD background can help in MT training but it would have been better to have spent that time training MT or some other kickboxing style.
    Last edited by AustinHarry; 6/14/2010 1:49pm at . Reason: Premature submission
  5. aiyer is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2010 2:34pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Savate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting read. So if I understand correctly, the reason why TKD practitioners need more time to gain the same strength is because they train while holding back which leads them to develop technique that does not fully incorporate the potential power. Which does serve as an interesting point.

    However, I can see the average TKD practitioner replying that they focus more on speed rather on strength and that they don't need that excess of strength if their technique is placed correctly.
  6. Uglybugly is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2010 2:42pm


     Style: judo

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    I did tkd for 5 years and if I could be as awesome as I am in just 1 year with kickboxing.. that's great =)
  7. Uncle Skippy is offline

    See my tongue. SEE IT!

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2010 3:23pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
      Style: BJJ, MT, TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alucard619 View Post
    My fourth TKD class when I began training was sparring. So take that!
    It took me about 3-4 months to start sparring when I was focusing on TKD. Of course, when I started, I felt like this with all of the protective gear:


    But that is only because I didn't know what to expect and I was afraid of getting hurt.

    Now... not so much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alucard619 View Post
    In all seriousness pretty interesting. A buddy of mine just started training in Muay Thai and he says all the years of Taekwondo training made the transition to Muay Thai so much smoother.
    This is why cross-training is so important. Transitioning to other arts should be a little difficult, but should not be overwhelmingly frustrating. If the prior style emphasized the basics (kinetic linking, footwork, distancing, angles, etc...), then moving to another art which emphasizes the same things should be **relatively** painless. If you were to come from an art that emphasized t3h d34dly and ignored the basics in favor of single-'kill'-shots, then be ready to cry in frustration because you really are starting over.

    Some TKD places which do place emphasis on medium/heavy contact sparring should make the transition less painful.
  8. helmutlvx is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2010 3:27pm


     Style: In transition

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's not surprising.

    When the hell did martial arts get to the point that fighting stopped being the way to train for fighting?
  9. Uncle Skippy is offline

    See my tongue. SEE IT!

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2010 3:31pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
      Style: BJJ, MT, TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by helmutlvx View Post
    It's not surprising.

    When the hell did martial arts get to the point that fighting stopped being the way to train for fighting?
    I blame the 80's.

    At that point, most martial arts became daycare instead of fight training. Those kids became the adults who are raising precious little snowflakes.

    But I digress...
  10. Conde Koma is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/14/2010 3:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo,MT,Boxing,BJJ

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    great find, skip, saved!
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