232522 Bullies, 3879 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 43
Page 1 of 5 1 2345 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Uglybugly is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    676

    Posted On:
    6/13/2010 2:38am


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    I need some advice..:P

    I want to learn a way to knock people out without doing great bodily harm. A vulcan move or something similar would be best.. something that the police can't arrest me for. This kind of moves is not really realistic in my eyes.. so I was wondering what kind of art and people I need to go see if I seriously want to learn this kind of skills.

    I want something that actually works.. so I am asking is it possible? and if so what art's teach this stuff?
  2. Petter is offline

    12th level logic wielder

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,964

    Posted On:
    6/13/2010 2:44am


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Uglybugly View Post
    I want something that actually works.. so I am asking is it possible? and if so what art's teach this stuff?
    Rendering someone unconscious, reliably and without causing harm? Your options are, A, any form of grappling with good chokes, or B, anesthesiology.
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
  3. Emevas is offline
    Emevas's Avatar

    Dysfunctionally Strong

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Minot AFB, ND
    Posts
    6,788

    Posted On:
    6/13/2010 3:00am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah summer.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  4. HereBeADragon is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Inland Empire, California
    Posts
    1,151

    Posted On:
    6/13/2010 3:02am


     Style: Limalama, Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are you serious or are you just fucking with us? I ask because I cannot fathom how anyone could ask that kind of question and expect a serious answer here.
    Now to be fair if you are serious then the short answer is no. Now for the longer answer.

    The best way to knock someone out with the smallest chance of going to jail would probably be to choke them out. Does not leave any marks or obvious injuries and the person knocked out usually doesn't suffer concusions or other head trauma.

    You seem to be looking more for nerve attack type stuff though so enter the Dim Mak. This is the psudescience/mystical nerve point/death touch fighting type martial art stuff. This has been discussed to death around here so do a forum search and see for yourself if you'd like to know more.

    My personal take on it is that a majority of the claims made about dim mak and the people who claim to teach it are BS. The rest of the art consists of techniques that are possible but very difficult and low percentage moves that absolutely should not be the bread and butter defensive tactics of a novice or experienced fighter. It exists and can work but the level of skill needed to use such moves is so difficult to achive that any real practicality in the art is lost over the time it takes to learn it. Never mind trying to find a legit teacher. So thats pretty much it.

    It comes down to this. If you feel the need to knock someone out. Then first ask yourself if this person is worth getting arrested over. If the answer is yes then swing for the fences. If the answer is no then get outta the situation. There is no magical "vulcan move" that allows you to knock people out and absolves you from the consiquences of your actions.
  5. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,777

    Posted On:
    6/13/2010 3:04am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    something that the police can't arrest me for.
    That's a bit dubious ...

    Anyway, the closest thing to a semi-reliable "Vulcan nerve pinch" would be this:

    YouTube- The Indestructibles - Karate Knockout Chop

    ... bearing in mind the obvious differences between a carefully staged demo and a real fight (hint - position, position, position).

    Same target (looks to me) and result, different technique:

    YouTube- pimp gets knocked out

    Really, though, the standard RNC, rear naked choke is probably more reliable in that it doesn't require this kind of precision accuracy. If your opponent was wearing a strong enough jacket, there's a whole class of lapel/collar/scarf chokes in judo and jujitsu that work fine, too.
    Last edited by DdlR; 6/13/2010 3:07am at .
  6. Uglybugly is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    676

    Posted On:
    6/13/2010 3:31am


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think chokes is not the answer because it will look so brutal if I slam somebody on the ground wrestle myself into position and chokes the guy so gets blue.. it might also be quite dangerous if the guy is drunk etc. I don't want to accidentally kill somebody.

    that knockout slap is more or less what I am looking for. I have actually been knocked down on krav maga training with this kind of move once. can this slap be successfully applied from a clinch? what kind of art do I need to study for this? krav maga don't spar btw..
  7. Petter is offline

    12th level logic wielder

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,964

    Posted On:
    6/13/2010 3:43am


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lots of moves CAN knock you out. That does not mean that they are reliable. A solid punch to the button is a good way to knock someone out, but an awful lot of punches fail to do so.

    I maintain that the only reliable ways are chokes and anesthesiology. Even the latter won’t be safe with drunks.
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
  8. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,777

    Posted On:
    6/13/2010 4:09am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Uglybugly View Post
    I think chokes is not the answer because it will look so brutal if I slam somebody on the ground wrestle myself into position and chokes the guy so gets blue.. it might also be quite dangerous if the guy is drunk etc. I don't want to accidentally kill somebody.
    OK, so basically you want something that works reliably but doesn't look too brutal, re. liability. Many people would answer that by saying "it's better to be tried by twelve than carried by six". Personally, I think there's plenty of room for less potentially lethal options, even in civilian self defense scenarios (police defensive tactics have that concept built in).

    Re. safety, though, there's an unavoidable risk in any percussive or pressure attack to the side of the neck. People with naturally weak arterial walls could be very seriously injured, or even killed, by this sort of technique. There is also the risk that a strike aimed at the side of the neck could accidentally hit the trachea.

    that knockout slap is more or less what I am looking for. I have actually been knocked down on krav maga training with this kind of move once. can this slap be successfully applied from a clinch? what kind of art do I need to study for this? krav maga don't spar btw..
    Very hard to do this sort of thing from a classic clinch, though it is possible to generate a significant amount of force without much windup using a relaxed, "heavy hand" dynamic. My best advice would be to find a realistic base art (that includes a lot of pressure-testing via sparring) and develop your neck strikes as a specialty, in your own time, assuming that it's a serious goal and that the base art doesn't already emphasize these techniques.

    If I was writing a prescription it would include bag training to develop your "heavy hand"/relaxed whipping strikes from a variety of angles, then drilling those techniques with a semi-compliant partner, especially working on positioning. Next stage would be to integrate it into progressively more "alive" sparring, which might well require your training partner to wear a heavily padded protective collar (and it still probably wouldn't be much fun for him).

    In general, though, we're talking about a small, easily defended target. Is it really worth the training time required to lift these strikes into the higher-percentage? That's up to you.
  9. Uglybugly is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    676

    Posted On:
    6/13/2010 5:14am


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I will still do some sort of grappling so it is not like this is gonna be my only defense...
    what is this heavy hand thingy and how does the concept really work?
  10. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,777

    Posted On:
    6/13/2010 5:44am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's basically generating the power of the strike by shifting weight from foot to foot and directing it through the hips and waist (as usual in striking) but striking with a very relaxed, "heavy" arm. The force comes from swinging the arm as a dead weight, rather than from engaging the arm muscles; any unnecessary tension in the arm, shoulder etc. can reduce the effect of the strike. These are usually cutting "chops" rather than linear punches, though you can use the same skill in straight punching.

    It's a knack that requires specialized training but can be useful, especially re. generating significant force without the strike itself being "obvious" to onlookers/witnesses in the way that a more orthodox strike may be. Executive protection (bodyguard) D.T. training sometimes uses this method for that reason.

    Best way to develop a feel for it (IMO) is to absolutely kill your arms with push-ups etc. and then swing/chop into a heavy bag from a variety of angles and positions. Ideally, and this does take a lot of training, you end up with quite a casual-appearing movement that doesn't look like much, but hits really deep and heavy. This + realistic grappling training might be a step in the direction you want to take.
Page 1 of 5 1 2345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.