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  1. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2010 7:22pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conde Koma View Post
    I think it's fair to say that physical training and diet/supplements are a way of meeting your genetically predisposed potential, whereas steroids and other PEDs are a way of exceeding that potential.
    Genes don't change (ish), but testosterone levels do - for example, with age.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conde Koma View Post
    Russ, why do we care about genetic bigotry?
    Because we understand that what should be important is not who your parents were, or how their chromosomes crossed over, but how much you're willing to give to reach your goals.

    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON View Post
    By the way, TheRuss, I could use another set of eyes here. You may have heard of something called sociocide? Oh yes!
    I like to pretend that Sociocide doesn't exist... also, I've checked out the thread, but I don't really have much insight as to how your changes will affect its androgenic/estrogenic/anabolic effects vis-a-vis testosterone. Make sure it doesn't get aromatized to anything too toxic?
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  2. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2010 1:38pm

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    @ Emevas: Here are what i feel are problems with how you are stating your opinion.

    I'm aware they are illegal. My argument has been they should not be.
    ...my argument that, for steroids, there aren't any studies that show that responsible use (yes, this would mean doctor supervision) with PCT has the horrific negative side effects that people believe steroids have....
    I've seen no evidence that that steroids used in a safe manner are dangerous.
    I don't know enough about every steroid to be able to say all are equally safe.
    I don't imagine that all athletes will safely use steroids


    As i have said before, you must provide a strong argument to change the status quo which i do not think you have.
    It is the potential for abuse which dictates these laws imo.
  3. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2010 1:58pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post

    I am going to say this right now, as clearly as I can: Anyone - anyone - who says that anabolic steroids should be illegal but football, boxing or mixed martial arts should still be allowed is a hypocrite.

    Steroids aren't a health hazard. Getting hit in the head repeatedly is a fucking health hazard. The rate of dementia pugilistica in boxers is north of 20 percent.

    Steroids shrink your balls for a while. Brain trauma will ruin your life.
    Bullshit.
    You must first prove their safety for your assertion to hold water, if not you equate adding risks with the activity itself.
    Are you against protective gear?
    So for par, cite a source.


    Citation needed. Dude stops riding and his team drags him along (slowing them down) instead of calling for medical assistance? Your anecdote smells fishy.

    (Strychnine? Nice fucking strawman.)
    Deep bullshit.
    You use an "argument from ignorance" to introduce a red herring,
    then expect me to indulge your diversion while accusing me of a strawman, effectively making one yourself?
    You really need to trade in your PDR for a copy of Strunk and White JR. and brush up on those Bullshidoka arguments there Russ.

    I'll give you a couple hints though, just because i like your PT thread.
    1. A team time trial needs everyone to finish, otherwise they all get DNFs.
    2. He was already dead, medical attention would not have helped
    3. (Speculation) Knowing how the cycling community behaves, they would likely have wanted him to have a finishing time for his final ride.
    4. The drug in question was not the point, go back and read my posts again if that is not clear. Ftr i stand corrected it was not strychnine.


    I find many of the rest of your responses here tedious at best...




    I ask again:

    Does the entertainment value of a sport supersede the the other core values about why we train and compete?
  4. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2010 2:02pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    @ Emevas: Here are what i feel are problems with how you are stating your opinion.









    As i have said before, you must provide a strong argument to change the status quo which i do not think you have.
    It is the potential for abuse which dictates these laws imo.
    In all of your quotes, I have been saying there is no evidence of their danger. That is my argumnet.

    Furthermore, you haven't explained why the status quo is acceptable. If potential for abuse dictates law, then alcohol should CLEARLY be illegal, but it is not.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  5. SFGOON is offline
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    and humble, too!

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2010 4:30pm


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    @ Emevas: Here are what i feel are problems with how you are stating your opinion.


    Rantings

    As i have said before, you must provide a strong argument to change the status quo which i do not think you have.
    It is the potential for abuse which dictates these laws imo.
    Emevas knows what he knows intuitively. My knowledge of the issue is rather more direct and articulable.

    Public policy with regard to performance enhancing drugs is an overreaction. Steroids are currently Schedule III, meaning that not only are they available by prescription only, but the prescriptions that doctors write for them and the way in which they are filled is closely monitored by the DEA/FDA.

    Steroids are currently indicated to treat an extremely narrow set of diseases, when they have the potential to treat several more. Things such as obesity and depression, both of which are common and highly debilitating diseases.

    Finally, with the public hysteria over cheating at baseball and the grotesque physiques produced by combining steroid use with exacting diets and exercise, research into a class of drugs with a high potential for effectively treating common diseases is grossly under-represented.

    All I ask is that the most efficacious steroids be placed in Schedule IV, and these be indicated for a wider range of diseases (including injury prevention in sports medicine, yes.) This will allow physicians to prescribe them more easily. Strict guidelines could be put in place to curtail abuse, (something you will never eliminate.)

    By the way (and now comes the lulz) the potential for abuse isn't your opinion for making steroids prescription only; it's a known and documented fact! Is it also you opinion that the best vessel for containing breakfast oatmeal is a bowl?

    HA HA HA LOL hurr hurr tee hee hee hee hee!!!
    Last edited by SFGOON; 6/21/2010 4:33pm at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    You sound like a foaming-at-the-mouth-loon out of Dr. Strangelove.
    Sometimes, we put Ricin in the Cocaine. :ninja7:
  6. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/23/2010 12:30pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    In all of your quotes, I have been saying there is no evidence of their danger. That is my argumnet.

    Furthermore, you haven't explained why the status quo is acceptable. If potential for abuse dictates law, then alcohol should CLEARLY be illegal, but it is not.
    I realize this and you are adhering to a lousy argument.
    Alcohol is a red herring, as i stated before.
    You also keep resorting to lack of evidence as well.
    Weak.

    The status quo is a reality; acceptable, logical or not.
    Provide evidence to support your claims.
  7. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/23/2010 12:42pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChenPengFi View Post
    I realize this and you are adhering to a lousy argument.
    Alcohol is a red herring, as i stated before.
    You also keep resorting to lack of evidence as well.
    Weak.

    The status quo is a reality; acceptable, logical or not.
    Provide evidence to support your claims.
    The status quo is reality, yes. My question is, is it acceptable? I say no.

    My claims are that there are no studies demonstrating the dangers of proper steroid use with PCT. I have supported this. You keep saying the same things over and over again, and I keep answering them. Meanwhile, you haven't explained to me why the status quo is acceptable.

    Do you believe alcohol should be legal?
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  8. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/23/2010 12:44pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON View Post
    ...
    {lots of facts that i have no contention with}
    ...

    By the way (and now comes the lulz) the potential for abuse isn't your opinion for making steroids prescription only; it's a known and documented fact! Is it also you opinion that the best vessel for containing breakfast oatmeal is a bowl?

    HA HA HA LOL hurr hurr tee hee hee hee hee!!!
    Fair enough, so your problem is?

    Personally i have no dog in this fight, i had hoped the intelligent and versed BS posters would have this argument fleshed out already,
    Instead i am treated to a scripted strawman routine and the actual issue i raised remains untouched.

    To wit i have no problem with drugs being used in a medical context SFGoon, yet you bring up depression, obesity etc.. Lame.

    The thread is about MMA fighters, in particular KS, using steroids in an illegal manner.
    When i directed questions toward Emevas he went vague on me and started on about "personal" non-medical uses and how although he clearly stated he supported steroid use in sports, he refused to address the issue in entirety.
    Lame again.

    Finally, Russ, a poster i highly respect for his knowledge and writing, chose to only try to nit pick little pieces (fallaciously i might add) of my argument while still ignoring the status quo and burden of proof required by such.
    (I still await his response)

    So for the third time:

    Does the entertainment value of a sport supersede the the other core values about why we train and compete?
  9. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/23/2010 12:48pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When i directed questions toward Emevas he went vague on me and started on about "personal" non-medical uses and how although he clearly stated he supported steroid use in sports, he refused to address the issue in entirety.
    Lame again.


    I apologize that I have no desire to get into a subjective argument on politics, morals and values with you, but I honestly don't care other people think about steroid use in sports.

    I don't understand why you're so interested in my personal view on the matter. I think athletes should be allowed to use what they want in a sport. I also think athletes are overpaid, and shouldn't be role models for children. These are all just opinions, and having a debate on them is pointless.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  10. ChenPengFi is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/23/2010 12:48pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Stop with the red herring..

    No your claim is the status quo should be changed, prove it.

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