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  1. Luzaf is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2010 8:42pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Traditional Shaolin Kung Fu - Is there such a thing?

    I'm sorry if there is another post like this on the board (Which I'm sure somewhere there is at least one, if not more.). I do not mean to spam your board with repeat threads, but as my first thread, this is something I would like to discuss. I did Judo along with some other martial arts under T.R. McClanahan for 5 years, in that time he made me very weary about "McDojo" schools. Ever since a family move, i've found it hard finding a school that I'm really happy with or feel like they are really teaching me something worth while. For a while now I have been interested in learning the traditional Shaolin Kung Fu system (which from my understanding consists of 10 forms). By traditional, I mean no disrespect to any other form or school. I only wish to learn what was originally taught to the monks for the purpose of experiencing the enlightenment and form of the monks as more of a spiritual journey for myself than a martial journey. Although, the more I look into shaolin kung fu the more I find schools such as Sin The's Kung Fu-Do schools. I thought for a moment that I might have found something in Sifu Wing Lam's schools, but I also see a lot of McDojoness to his claims. Is there anyone left that practices this still?

    Again, I do not mean to bring any disrespect to any school
  2. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/10/2010 9:07pm

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    i think the first thing you need to do is to do some research from academic sources and find out that most of what you think you know about the shaolin temple and shaolin kung fu is myth.

    then you need to think about what you actually mean by authentic shaolin kung fu.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/10/2010 9:30pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Luzaf View Post
    I'm sorry if there is another post like this on the board (Which I'm sure somewhere there is at least one, if not more.). I do not mean to spam your board with repeat threads, but as my first thread, this is something I would like to discuss. I did Judo along with some other martial arts under T.R. McClanahan for 5 years, in that time he made me very weary about "McDojo" schools. Ever since a family move, i've found it hard finding a school that I'm really happy with or feel like they are really teaching me something worth while. For a while now I have been interested in learning the traditional Shaolin Kung Fu system (which from my understanding consists of 10 forms). By traditional, I mean no disrespect to any other form or school. I only wish to learn what was originally taught to the monks for the purpose of experiencing the enlightenment and form of the monks as more of a spiritual journey for myself than a martial journey. Although, the more I look into shaolin kung fu the more I find schools such as Sin The's Kung Fu-Do schools. I thought for a moment that I might have found something in Sifu Wing Lam's schools, but I also see a lot of McDojoness to his claims. Is there anyone left that practices this still?

    Again, I do not mean to bring any disrespect to any school
    Wow ten forms in original Shaolin?

    I will tell you a secret? No one, I repeat no one, practices any art as it was originally taught.
  4. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/10/2010 9:52pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Luzaf, the term "shaolin" might be better thought of as a general notion than an actual statement of lineage.

    If you're interested in Buddhist spirituality, you're probably better off just finding some decent meditation and forgetting martial gymnastics, honestly.
  5. Luzaf is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2010 1:27am

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    Wow ten forms in original Shaolin?

    I will tell you a secret? No one, I repeat no one, practices any art as it was originally taught.
    This was part of my question :) My entire martial arts career has been judo. I know very little about CMA, thus why I came here with my questions. I feel like I'm being shunned for looking for information. So ok, I'm not going to be able to find exactly what was practiced in the shaolin temple. I truthfully didn't expect to. But what is the closest I can come to finding that?

    Edit: From what heard, Bak Sil Lum is a northern shaolin style that consists of 10 core forms. This information is coming from a second hand source and is why I ask this forum's members if they have any additional information.To add onto this, it is also taught by a student of Wing Lam in my area. Is a Wing Lum associated school a trustworthy kung fu school?

    i think the first thing you need to do is to do some research from academic sources and find out that most of what you think you know about the shaolin temple and shaolin kung fu is myth.

    then you need to think about what you actually mean by authentic shaolin kung fu.
    Would you be able to point me in the direction of some reliable, truthful, academic sources? I would love to read up more.

    And by authentic shaolin, I'm trying to find the closest to the how it was practiced in the temple. I don't expect it to be exactly the same. Over the years Judo has changed too, more has been added, old techniques updated. But judo is still judo. I know different Judo teachers teach different ways, but again they still teach the same thing. Is it different with shaolin kung fu? I'm uneducated on the subject.
    Last edited by Luzaf; 6/11/2010 1:45am at .
  6. lxy is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2010 1:45am

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    The short answer is no one. The better answer IMHO is that its not that important. Just do us a favor and don't go train with the current "Shaolin Monks" from China; you might as well go into gymnastics. That's probably the farthest you will get from traditional Shaolin kung fu.

    You seem interested in traditional chinese martial arts so just pick the best one or the best fit for you. Shuai Jiao would be the rough Judo-equivalent in CMA. "Northern" styles or "Internal" styles would be the most different than Judo although Taiji Quan is mostly take-downs and locks if you kind find a teacher who actually knows his/her stuff.

    The difference is that there is alot of different various "Shaolin kung fu." Judo is more modern and systemized. Traditional CMA never went through this period (unless you count the Cultural Revolution but that was more trying to get rid of martial arts.) Reiterating my second sentence, its not that important. Find the best traditional CMA school you can.
  7. Luzaf is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2010 6:24am

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    Quote Originally Posted by lxy View Post
    The short answer is no one. The better answer IMHO is that its not that important. Just do us a favor and don't go train with the current "Shaolin Monks" from China; you might as well go into gymnastics. That's probably the farthest you will get from traditional Shaolin kung fu.

    You seem interested in traditional chinese martial arts so just pick the best one or the best fit for you. Shuai Jiao would be the rough Judo-equivalent in CMA. "Northern" styles or "Internal" styles would be the most different than Judo although Taiji Quan is mostly take-downs and locks if you kind find a teacher who actually knows his/her stuff.

    The difference is that there is alot of different various "Shaolin kung fu." Judo is more modern and systemized. Traditional CMA never went through this period (unless you count the Cultural Revolution but that was more trying to get rid of martial arts.) Reiterating my second sentence, its not that important. Find the best traditional CMA school you can.
    Thank you, this is exactly what I needed :)
  8. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2010 7:59am

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     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Luzaf View Post
    This was part of my question :) My entire martial arts career has been judo. I know very little about CMA, thus why I came here with my questions. I feel like I'm being shunned for looking for information. So ok, I'm not going to be able to find exactly what was practiced in the shaolin temple. I truthfully didn't expect to. But what is the closest I can come to finding that?
    why aren't you still training judo? have you gotten your shodan? how old are you, and how many years of judo do you actually have? what rank are you?

    if you think you are being shunned or treated unfairly, you are in for a rough ride here, as we have been extremely polite by bullshido standards. i am now going to get a bit ruder in tone to try to get some ideas through your thick skull.

    Edit: From what heard, Bak Sil Lum is a northern shaolin style that consists of 10 core forms. This information is coming from a second hand source and is why I ask this forum's members if they have any additional information.To add onto this, it is also taught by a student of Wing Lam in my area. Is a Wing Lum associated school a trustworthy kung fu school?
    you heard wrong. everyone and their mom claims to teach "authentic" shaolin kung fu, and they are all lying. i blame the movies, personally.

    wing lam is a notorious collector of forms and styles as well as a successful businessman. i wouldn't study at one of his schools if i were you.

    Would you be able to point me in the direction of some reliable, truthful, academic sources? I would love to read up more.
    read this thread: Disputing Zhang San Feng, and other Myths of "Internal Martial Arts" - No BS MMA and Martial Arts

    it's mostly about tai chi, but it should go a long way towards showing you the kinds of texts you need to read to get any real info, as well as showing you the astounding amount of bullshit that passes for facts in the CMA world.

    And by authentic shaolin, I'm trying to find the closest to the how it was practiced in the temple. I don't expect it to be exactly the same. Over the years Judo has changed too, more has been added, old techniques updated. But judo is still judo. I know different Judo teachers teach different ways, but again they still teach the same thing. Is it different with shaolin kung fu? I'm uneducated on the subject.
    you're being an idiot and chasing myths. if you want tot train authentic CMA designed for fighting, you need to seek out a school with a proven full contact fight record on the lei tai or in the sanda ring. anything else is a pile of horse ****. forget about the shaolin temple, and do some research into full contact CMA competitions to see what you are actually looking for, because it doesn't look like the movies.

    i think you'd be better off staying in judo, personally.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  9. Chili Pepper is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2010 8:20am


     Style: Siling Labuyo Arnis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luzaf View Post
    Edit: From what heard, Bak Sil Lum is a northern shaolin style that consists of 10 core forms.
    "Bak Sil Lum" is just a generic name that means "Northern Shaolin". There was a prominent 20th century Chinese martial arts teacher by the name of Ku Yu Cheong who made a curriculum based on several styles he studied.

    To formalize and popularize his method, he co-opted the Shaolin name. An unfortunate side-effect of this is that people like yourself get the idea that his style was the legitimate Shaolin style, like there would be only one after a diaspora of 1,500 years.
  10. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/14/2010 5:46pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lots of Chinese styles have a Shaolin temple somewhere in their creation myth.

    As for enlightenment, well, if you go around martial arts schools looking for that, you're much more likely to end up with something goofy involving expensive uniforms.
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