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  1. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2011 7:37am

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    "Martial arts are for everyone."

    The more I train in the martial arts the more I believe that they are not for everyone. I think I'm starting to really understand the reasons why in history there existed warrior caste social classes. And the words of William J. Bennett are ringing more and more true.

    It takes a special kind of person to subject themselves to pain and injury on a regular basis to prepare for something that may never come. It's a form of sociopathy.

    Now, I'm no serviceman, but I don't think it's relegated to them alone.

    How does this relate to tae kwon do? Well, the vast majority of schools, regardless of their TKD sect, market it as an art for everyone. But then, so do many other arts. But I just don't think it's true. And any benefit gained through dilettante practice can be gained at a faster rate and with less struggle through other activities. Martial arts without the pain and injuries and struggle is just pretending.

    Martial arts are not for everyone.
    Last edited by MaverickZ; 5/10/2011 7:45am at .
  2. KiwiPhil889 is online now

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2011 8:51am


     Style: Kickboxin & Shootfightin

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    The more I train in the martial arts the more I believe that they are not for everyone. I think I'm starting to really understand the reasons why in history there existed warrior caste social classes. And the words of William J. Bennett are ringing more and more true.

    It takes a special kind of person to subject themselves to pain and injury on a regular basis to prepare for something that may never come. It's a form of sociopathy.

    Now, I'm no serviceman, but I don't think it's relegated to them alone.

    How does this relate to tae kwon do? Well, the vast majority of schools, regardless of their TKD sect, market it as an art for everyone. But then, so do many other arts. But I just don't think it's true. And any benefit gained through dilettante practice can be gained at a faster rate and with less struggle through other activities. Martial arts without the pain and injuries and struggle is just pretending.

    Martial arts are not for everyone.
    Bold mine. Without the risk of pain and injuries the struggle is pointless... for me. Its the difficult that makes it enjoyable. The bruised shins, the accidental elbow in the eye while rolling,the fat lip cuz my arms got tired at the wrong time lol,the sore muscles and the buckets of sweat are why i keep going back.

    I have to agree with the OP, sort of. ALIVE martial arts aren't for everyone, but damn they're fun!!
  3. Coach Josh is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/10/2011 11:00am

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     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Martial arts are for everyone fighting is not for everyone. You are confusing the two.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  4. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2011 2:39pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh View Post
    Martial arts are for everyone fighting is not for everyone. You are confusing the two.
    Could you elaborate please? I don't think I understand what you mean.
  5. Coach Josh is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/10/2011 3:17pm

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     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Martial arts is not fighting. Its a way, a path, or a quest. Because we do not agree with certain training methods does not make them 100% ineffective. Remember virtually anything can work on someone who doesn't know ****.

    So if some over weight guy takes up strip mall karate and loses some weight in the process and one day front snap kicks a dude in the face to defend himself was it a waste of his time? Is he going to go climb in the cage and take on GSP? No but the training in a low impact aerobic class or strip mall karate allowed him to gain some benefits from martial arts.

    Everyone should train in a martial art. If its Tai Chi or Aikido or BJJ or Judo just remember that your training does not make you a fighter but a better prepared human. Understand the limits of the style your training and the level it is and will take you.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/10/2011 4:04pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You guys are going to get into a semantics debate. I actually agree with most of your point Coach Josh, but disagree with how your distinct separation of Martial Art and fighting. I think they are both for everyone. For me you are wrong semantically Maverick because, anybody can try anything just not everyone is meant to succeed. Some people do, some people slide by, some people excel, some people are mediocre and some people quit.
  7. omoplatypus is offline
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    Merry Christmas! shitter's full...

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2011 4:41pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @coach josh:

    you can be my wingman, anytime!
    --------

    Quote Originally Posted by it is fake View Post
    yeah, normally i'd get a quote, but couldn't be bothered.
  8. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/10/2011 4:48pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    And any benefit gained through dilettante practice can be gained at a faster rate and with less struggle through other activities.
    Maybe, maybe not. Even if badminton is better than TKD (or whatever) for health and fitness, it only matters so long as the activity encourages compliance. Some people like sports and exercises that don't involve balls or helmets, or they prefer to be inside, or they have an interest in the cultural background of an art that keeps them coming back...and they wouldn't keep going back to another type of sport of a calisthenics class. Martial arts are fun, even if the sparring just involves kicking another heavily armored eight-year-old for points.
  9. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2011 4:52pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    You guys are going to get into a semantics debate. I actually agree with most of your point Coach Josh, but disagree with how your distinct separation of Martial Art and fighting. I think they are both for everyone. For me you are wrong semantically Maverick because, anybody can try anything just not everyone is meant to succeed. Some people do, some people slide by, some people excel, some people are mediocre and some people quit.
    I think buried within my original post is the assumption that devoting a large amount of time to training in an activity results in a certain level of expertise. What I mean is, I don't think it's useful for most people to take on training in the martial arts. As their mindset is not appropriate for the training it will result in subpar training. This time could be used elsewhere. Which leads me to Coach Josh's post.

    Coach, if we ignore the fighting aspect of the martial arts, what is left? The aerobic exercise aspect, strength training, flexibility training, tings of that nature, right? Given the amount of time spent on the fighting aspect, wouldn't it be more time efficient to train in something else. Gymnastics or yoga maybe. I can appreciate all the "side" benefits of martial arts training, but I think those benefits could be obtained faster and more directly in another activity. One wouldn't take up ice hockey to learn how to ice skate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. Even if badminton is better than TKD (or whatever) for health and fitness, it only matters so long as the activity encourages compliance. Some people like sports and exercises that don't involve balls or helmets, or they prefer to be inside, or they have an interest in the cultural background of an art that keeps them coming back...and they wouldn't keep going back to another type of sport of a calisthenics class. Martial arts are fun, even if the sparring just involves kicking another heavily armored eight-year-old for points.
    I can appreciate the "fun" aspect of martial arts training. But I was avoiding that because it is very subjective, to both the participant and the actual training details. I think both the people who practice strip mall karate and the people who train for cage fighting have fun doing it. I just think uses the training usefully and the other doesn't.
    Last edited by MaverickZ; 5/10/2011 4:56pm at .
  10. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/10/2011 5:11pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ View Post
    I can appreciate the "fun" aspect of martial arts training. But I was avoiding that because it is very subjective, to both the participant and the actual training details. I think both the people who practice strip mall karate and the people who train for cage fighting have fun doing it. I just think uses the training usefully and the other doesn't.
    Ah, you're just confusing your preferences for objectivity then. Training "usefully" is just as subjective as not. You're a good martial artist—you can fight. So? Can someone with a shotgun end you pretty easily? Yup. Can plenty of other martial artists also break you in two? Sure. (How long, really, would you last in the UFC? How about if the UFC had no weight classes? We can go on...) So is martial arts training useful? Even if you become a professional fighter, so what? It's a star system, which means that you're likely better off financially working in an office or opening a dry cleaners with your brother-in-law. So are martial arts skills more useful than accounting skills, or singing ability, or a union card and some carpentry skills? Nope, not in most cases.

    The only reason most people have to pursue martial arts is pure preference: because one wants to. And even if fighting is part of one's job, choosing that job is a matter of preference, albeit a preference constrained by circumstance. You seem to have some intuition that martial arts has some objective cross-situational utility that isn't in evidence. Not surprisingly, your intuition is informed by your own training and other beliefs about the benefits of sparring, working hard, and your need to have some sort of "objective" benefits for what you prefer doing. It's a common thing, but in most cases, people's preferences come first and "objective" proof or claims about the utility of this or that endeavor are just ad hoc justifications.
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