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  1. BKR is offline
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2010 12:50pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    I just wanted to add to this that Sheldon Marr told me he was first introduced to Arce by Leo White who knew him from military Judo. If Leo White says you can play Judo and Neil O says you can not, I suppose you really can play Judo.
    Don't confuse the "legitimacy" of someone's rank (as in properly issued by a legitimate governing body, with ability. There are plenty of guys and gals out there who might qualify as shodan, for example, but simply have gone through the process to get promoted,for one reason or another.

    I did not see where Neil said Arce can't do Judo, he questioned whether or not he can legitimately say he has official, recognized rank (of black belt) in Judo.

    Why Neil would give a **** I don't know, I'll have to go to Judo Forum and search for the thread(s). I vaguely remember the argument about Ude Garami..it's been discussed more than once, though over the years at Judo Forum.

    Something else..as to Neil's rank vs Gokor's rank, I am pretty sure Neil's rank is through USJA, not USA Judo as Arce has stated/implied. Gokor I have no idea, but that information can be gotten from JA, JF, and USA Judo pretty easily, just as mine could be researched.

    Ben
      #51
  2. Cy Q. Faunce is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/08/2010 7:07pm

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     Style: Finding You

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    In the over all scheme of things, what did it change?
    Around here? Not a lot. We figured you were legit already. A person who is more in doubt has more to gain.

    My sympathy for your loss.

    And now for someone I'm much angrier with:

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoSensei View Post
    What happened to that famous Bullshido skepticism?
    It got directed at your claims as well as Arce's. His black belt panned out. Your story didn't.

    I emailed you and PMed you, respectfully urging you to come here and make your case. You didn't do that. Normally, dropping an accusation like that and then failing to back it up would get you permabanned, if I recall the policy correctly. You could probably use a time out.

    I used to respect you. I'd heard you were a good guy. Maybe you are, in some ways. But this Nicky Nicky Nine Doors business isn't cool. It's gutless and despicable.

    And now that we are in MABS, I repeat my question to Arce:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce View Post
    What years did you serve, and where?

    What was the highest rank you achieved?
    Please respond at your earliest convenience. I have War Wheel's account of your past, but I want to hear it from you.
      #52
  3. JudoSensei is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2010 10:17pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sambosteve View Post
    At this point, the real issue is Neil's unwillingness to return and comment.
    That is quite a conclusion after one day. But OK, let me explain myself. I didn't create this topic. It was created by a mod after pulling my post out of context where I was responding to a discussion about whether Arce should get a BB tag in an April Fools Joke topic. I understand now that my post was not welcome where I had put it and I apologize for that. So it took me an extra day to find the new topic.

    After reading this topic I also took a look at the documents provided a little more closely. The first time I saw a blurry certificate that did not appear to be a judo rank from a judo club, but I see now that it does seem to refer to a judo black belt rank. If that is enough for Bullshido then so be it.

    I never questioned Arce's ability to fight, corner, coach, do TKD, or do judo.

    In the context of an April Fools thread it seemed suspicious and I was surprised no one asked any questions about it -- like who awarded his shodan, or his rank history. As far as I know he did not respond to Mark's questions about his judo competition history (whether he ever competed in a black belt division). He apparently has no national recognition of his rank. In addition, I was familiar with false claims he made to a JudoForum mod that were not related to his rank but which raised questions in my mind about his credibility.

    I apologize for getting everyone all worked up. I also apologize to Mr. Arce if he actually holds a recognized judo black belt and earned it legitimately. Most of us can provide convincing evidence of our rank history and I really would like to see more, but as far as the BB tag goes he can have it.
      #53
  4. Cy Q. Faunce is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/08/2010 10:29pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoSensei View Post
    That is quite a conclusion after one day.
    Two days, actually, but you have accounted for that delay and I understand your explanation. I'm very sorry I shot my mouth off. We usually give people a 48-hour warning on claims like the one you made, when they present no evidence, but it's been about that long. Thus, what you did is not unreasonable.

    I see two issues here. One is the evidence you went in with, which I'll leave aside for now; you can decide if you want to raise the alarm again on similar evidence, and if so, how you want to do it. If you're merely suspicious and not absolutely certain, it'd be better to say so, and nobody would fault you for it.

    The bigger issue is that you seem to think that we pre-emptively seek out fakery. We don't. Maybe we should have vetted the tag better, but I don't know how much proof the vetter had; they may have contacted Grappler's Edge and gotten confirmation.

    However, we don't generally go looking for people to accuse. Our members, yourself included, bring the issues to us. It's not a failure of the system if you come to us with the information. That, right there, is the system.

    At this point, I think any inquiry will revolve around his military service claims. That is the only part I'm pursuing at this writing.
      #54
  5. Matt Phillips is online now
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2010 11:21pm

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     Style: Submission Grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JudoSensei View Post
    That is quite a conclusion after one day. But OK, let me explain myself. I didn't create this topic. It was created by a mod after pulling my post out of context where I was responding to a discussion about whether Arce should get a BB tag in an April Fools Joke topic. I understand now that my post was not welcome where I had put it and I apologize for that. So it took me an extra day to find the new topic.
    Bullshit. You alluded to evidence, so post it. You still have not even provided a link to the judofrum thread(s) in question.


    After reading this topic I also took a look at the documents provided a little more closely. The first time I saw a blurry certificate that did not appear to be a judo rank from a judo club
    Riiiiight

    what are you, blind?

    , but I see now that it does seem to refer to a judo black belt rank. If that is enough for Bullshido then so be it.
    If you bothered to read the thread you would have seen Tripp's explanation of the criterion in question. How did you manage to stumble on an old newbietown thread anyway? By accident, just browsing newbie threads?

    I never questioned Arce's ability to fight, corner, coach, do TKD, or do judo.
    My bad.

    In the context of an April Fools thread it seemed suspicious and I was surprised no one asked any questions about it -- like who awarded his shodan, or his rank history.
    Like I said, did you read the thread? How did you get to the part about him being Steve Arce without spotting the information you seem to be asking for?

    As far as I know he did not respond to Mark's questions about his judo competition history (whether he ever competed in a black belt division).
    Tripp quote please.

    He apparently has no national recognition of his rank.
    Why don't you walk out of your office and ask Dee Dee to fill you in on the progress of his application.

    In addition, I was familiar with false claims he made to a JudoForum mod that were not related to his rank but which raised questions in my mind about his credibility.
    Again, link PLEASE.

    I apologize for getting everyone all worked up. I also apologize to Mr. Arce if he actually holds a recognized judo black belt and earned it legitimately.
    "If?" I know you don't like to actually read the threads you post in, but I clearly stated that Sheldon Marr verified the rank award. Now I don't even train in Judo, but I know who Sheldon Marr is. Who are you again?

    Most of us can provide convincing evidence of our rank history
    You know very well that as a certified examiner you can give any slob off the street rank as long as he can satisfy the exam requirements. Even if he learned in Uncle Larry's garage and has dojo paper written in crayon.

    and I really would like to see more, but as far as the BB tag goes he can have it.
    Not your call to make; not your call to make... again.
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 6/08/2010 11:45pm at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
      #55
  6. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2010 11:35pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoSensei View Post
    I really would like to see more
    So let me get this straight:
    Sheldon Marr, an examiner for the USJA, has graded Steve Arce at 4th dan in judo.
    Upon payment of the required fees, Steve Arce will be recognized as holding a black belt in judo by the USJA.
    You sit on the board of directors of the USJA.

    And yet somehow you would like to see more?

    I don't know what your issue is with the USJA's grading process, but maybe you should take it up with them, seeing as you are them.

    Seriously, what's your game?
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
      #56
  7. sambosteve is offline
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    Stillness is death

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2010 11:55pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JudoSensei View Post
    That is quite a conclusion after one day. But OK, let me explain myself. I didn't create this topic. It was created by a mod after pulling my post out of context where I was responding to a discussion about whether Arce should get a BB tag in an April Fools Joke topic. I understand now that my post was not welcome where I had put it and I apologize for that. So it took me an extra day to find the new topic.

    After reading this topic I also took a look at the documents provided a little more closely. The first time I saw a blurry certificate that did not appear to be a judo rank from a judo club, but I see now that it does seem to refer to a judo black belt rank. If that is enough for Bullshido then so be it.

    I never questioned Arce's ability to fight, corner, coach, do TKD, or do judo.

    In the context of an April Fools thread it seemed suspicious and I was surprised no one asked any questions about it -- like who awarded his shodan, or his rank history. As far as I know he did not respond to Mark's questions about his judo competition history (whether he ever competed in a black belt division). He apparently has no national recognition of his rank. In addition, I was familiar with false claims he made to a JudoForum mod that were not related to his rank but which raised questions in my mind about his credibility.

    I apologize for getting everyone all worked up. I also apologize to Mr. Arce if he actually holds a recognized judo black belt and earned it legitimately. Most of us can provide convincing evidence of our rank history and I really would like to see more, but as far as the BB tag goes he can have it.
    My conclusion was fair (and not only mine). Your explanation does not pan out for many of the reasons posted above.
    One of the best Bullshido investigations ever written: http://www.bullshido.org/David_Kujawski_Investigation
      #57
  8. Cy Q. Faunce is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/09/2010 12:18am

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    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    Riiiiight

    what are you, blind?
    That is fairly blurry, actually. It took me a bit to realize that it was a judo credential. Certainly it is not a document we would accept by itself as a proof of rank.

    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    "If?" I know you don't like to actually read the threads you post in, but I clearly stated that Sheldon Marr verified the rank award. Now I don't even train in Judo, but I know who Sheldon Marr is. Who are you again?
    1. You are in MABS. Moderate your tone.

    2. Neil Ohlenkamp is known to you. You are the one who discovered that Morton used his certs as a basis for forgery.

    This raillery is over the top.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nwp View Post
    Edit: I had to put the kids to bed before I finished this and I didnt refresh when I came back, so of course the Op showed up, but he is still crawfishin so I wont change anything!
    He made his apology. You are out of line.

    Folks, sometimes we get a false alarm. If they are made in good faith, and if they either provide proof or withdraw the accusation within 48 hours of receiving a 48-hour warning, we don't pillory them. In this case, the person withdrew their remark within a little over 48 hours, and we didn't even issue a warning.
      #58
  9. T HUNTER is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/09/2010 12:27am

    Business Class Supporting Member
      

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The simple thing is this...I just did NOT have the money...I still don't...Tripp is right...I DO have to pay IN to the USA Judo system...USJA...USJI...USJF...I was NOT intending never to pay...I just ran in to hard times...I will slowly pay these Dan Rank off...and continue to devote my life to Bu Do and Ju Do...this...I have NEVER stopped doing...you do NOT NEED money...to live Bu Do and Ju Do...it is just in my DNA...



    Osu.
    Semper Fidelis.
    Mens Sana In Corpore Sano.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.










    -
    --
    ---
    "THE HUNTER"
      #59
  10. Matt Phillips is online now
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2010 12:40am

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce View Post
    That is fairly blurry, actually. It took me a bit to realize that it was a judo credential. Certainly it is not a document we would accept by itself as a proof of rank.
    Please explain. This is the document we accepted as proof of rank.

    1. You are in MABS. Moderate your tone.
    fair enough.

    2. Neil Ohlenkamp is known to you. You are the one who discovered that Morton used his certs as a basis for forgery.
    File under sarcastic tone. My point is that he made his charge without looking closely at the document in question. Yes it is blurry, but it is clear that the rank is for Judo if you take even a moment to examine it closely. Which I would do if I were going to level a charge. Also, claiming to have been unclear as to who issued the rank rings false as the name of Marr's well known academy is clearly visible, Marr's name is on the cert (although that IS hard to read), and Marr was named as the issuing instructor in the thread, which I would have also read if I were going to level a charge.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
      #60
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