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  1. Kantroce is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2010 2:41am


     Style: We'll see

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I still think it's funny that a lot of the Americans are complaining how the principal was treated poorly according to the rules that are generally governing American schools.

    They can't treat a principal like that, it's against the rules...in America!

    Guess what fuckwads, this didn't happen in America, so you can stop trying to apply how schools work around you to this situation. God damned know-it-alls.
  2. Goju - Joe is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2010 7:46am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicko1 View Post
    I used your quotes mate. You admitted that the student initiated contact and then assaulted the principal.



    I do not need to have a child in the Canadian education system to comment upon a fuckng YouTube video. If anything, your perception of this is being twisted by your personal circumstances.



    Yes. The school board would rather **** up one of their employees' lives in a pathetic attempt to pacify the indulgent parents of an entitled little brat than take a stand and defend him.



    This is not why you type slowly.



    Which is what he was trying to do when the student attempted to push past him.



    I''l look forward to it.



    **** you too buddy.
    Last time I'll try and make this clearer

    You're a fucking moron

    1. You didn't use my quotes against me you tried to play a semantics game where if I responded we would argue over interpretations of the meanings such as weather "Twisted and abused power" is the same as breaking the rules or if throwing yourself in front of someone who is trying to walk away from you is initiating physical contact.

    I don't need to argue these points with you because

    Yes I do live here, and have kids in the system and know for a fact my understanding of what they mean is correct and yours is wrong.

    For example you being a citizen of idiotville, I wouldn't sit there and tell you your personal understanding of the way idiotville works is wrong, because being the idiot in idiotville you would know better and anything I would say is an assumption VS your personal knowledge of idiotville

    so for anyone else

    Here we go again

    No crime was committed, no sexual inappropriate pictures no assault or fight.

    The principal at this point can ask for the phone, he can even use the no phone in school policy and the threat of expulsion to demand the phone.

    What he can't do is follow the kid and physically bloke him, escalate the situation and turn it into a physical confrontation.

    Which is why he was relived of his position.

    As to Canadian schools being pussies

    My oldest son was accused of stealing a laptop during lunch, the VP had conclusive video tape from the lunch room, cops were called in and I spent 5 ours at his school.

    To protect identities they wouldn't show the tape to anyone involved and only showed my a grainy still that showed my son removing a bag.

    THE VP was convinced he was guilty and now it was a case of getting the lap top back.

    To make a long story short, the back he removed was his friends and not the laptop bag, the kid who stole the laptop was caught and returned it.

    Even then the VP didn't believe my son was innocent until she finally showed the tape to the girl whose bag was stolen and she confirmed the bag my son on tape was taking from the lunch room table WASN'T hers.

    So you had an adult in a position of power over a student who was sure that she (the adult) was in the right.

    Luckily she followed the guidelines instead of acting like a vigilante because she was wrong.

    That's why the guidelines are there.

    So for anyone who doesn't have kids and hasn't had to go through seeing them wrongly accused of something.

    With all due respect, STFU again you have no clue what you are talking about.
  3. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2010 8:06am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefron View Post
    I saw this on another forum.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae-6E...layer_embedded


    Bullshit IMO. Sure, the student maybe acted like a prick, but the principals reaction is uncalled for. Does the school have the right to physically restrain students? Throwing the guy and holding him in that nelson looks like assault to me.


    I would be pissed if this is my child. Well, I would probably be pissed if I'm the father of the girl he took pictures off too.
    Yes the school has the right to physically restrain kids. Also if your child is a douchebag like this kid and I was the principal I would be kicking both your child AND your ass! Raise your kid right to others don't have to!
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  4. Nicko1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2010 12:30pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - Joe View Post
    1. You didn't use my quotes against me you tried to play a semantics game where if I responded we would argue over interpretations of the meanings such as weather "Twisted and abused power" is the same as breaking the rules or if throwing yourself in front of someone who is trying to walk away from you is initiating physical contact.
    I was quoting you to point out the fact that the chain of events that you described does not support your conclusions. As for semantic debates, you are the one who tried to argue that it was possible to "push past" someone without pushing them.

    I have already asked you if we saw the same video. The one I saw does not contain footage of the Principal "throwing" himself in front of "someone who was trying to walk away."

    I don't need to argue these points with you because

    Yes I do live here, and have kids in the system and know for a fact my understanding of what they mean is correct and yours is wrong.

    For example you being a citizen of idiotville, I wouldn't sit there and tell you your personal understanding of the way idiotville works is wrong, because being the idiot in idiotville you would know better and anything I would say is an assumption VS your personal knowledge of idiotville
    I hope that made you feel better because, as a point in this argument, it was completely irrelevant. I do not need personal knowledge of your school system to be able to watch a video and describe the chain of events that it records. By contrast, your personal experience seems to be hampering your ability to do so.

    No crime was committed, no sexual inappropriate pictures no assault or fight.
    Even if this were true, it does not alter the chain of events that led to the student being restrained.

    The principal at this point can ask for the phone, he can even use the no phone in school policy and the threat of expulsion to demand the phone.
    This would require a conversation. Which the principal could not have until the the student stopped pushing past him and responded.

    What he can't do is follow the kid...
    Why?

    ...and physically bloke him, escalate the situation and turn it into a physical confrontation.
    The escalation from a situation with no physical contact to one with physical contact was made by the student. As was the escalation from a nonviolent situation to a violent one.

    My oldest son was accused of stealing a laptop during lunch, the VP had conclusive video tape from the lunch room, cops were called in and I spent 5 ours at his school.

    To protect identities they wouldn't show the tape to anyone involved and only showed my a grainy still that showed my son removing a bag.

    THE VP was convinced he was guilty and now it was a case of getting the lap top back.

    To make a long story short, the back he removed was his friends and not the laptop bag, the kid who stole the laptop was caught and returned it.

    Even then the VP didn't believe my son was innocent until she finally showed the tape to the girl whose bag was stolen and she confirmed the bag my son on tape was taking from the lunch room table WASN'T hers.

    So you had an adult in a position of power over a student who was sure that she (the adult) was in the right.
    And here we have the source of your inability to see this incident clearly. If it makes you feel any better, the VP at your son's school sounds most unreasonable. However, the incident under discussion here is not dependent upon the student being guilty of whatever the Principal suspected him of. In fact if the student was innocent then he is even more stupid than if he was guilty. If the student was innocent he could have simply turned the phone over and been exonerated. Instead, he chose to ignore verbal instruction to stop, attempted to "push past" when the Principal made it physically impossible to ignore him, then escalated the situation into violence when it became clear that the Principal was not just going to dry up and blow away.

    Luckily she followed the guidelines instead of acting like a vigilante, because she was wrong.
    Please. Where did the Principal's actions constitute vigilantism?

    So for anyone who doesn't have kids and hasn't had to go through seeing them wrongly accused of something.

    With all due respect, STFU again you have no clue what you are talking about.
    I found this attitude contemptible before I became a father, and I find it contemptible now. Being a parent has nothing to do with this. When your son was accused of theft, did he try to ignore the VP and go on his merry way? Did he become violent with her when he realised that the VP did not intend to let the matter drop? No, he recognised that the VP had the obligation to question him and cooperated to clear the misunderstanding up.

    The incident depicted in the video has nothing to do with your son's experience. You are allowing your personal experience to colour your perception of this incident. Under the guidelines that you posted, the Principal had the obligation to deal with this matter immediately. If the student had handed the phone over, the situation would not have become violent. If the student had refused to hand the phone over, the situation would not have become violent. The student did neither. He initiated physical contact in an attempt to get past the Principal whilst ignoring his instructions and then became violent when the trouble he was in failed to vanish.
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2010 12:35pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Did all of you arguing with Goju miss his earliest posts? Seriously?

    There is a reason this is a semantic battle.

    So for anyone who doesn't have kids and hasn't had to go through seeing them wrongly accused of something.
    He said this real early in the thread where exactly did you think this was headed.
  6. Goju - Joe is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2010 8:10pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah this is actually one of the most ridiculous threads ever.

    yes my personal experience effects my understanding because you know I personally experienced it and had to deal with it first hand, including discussion with lawyers, friends who are teachers.

    Oh BTW I forgot to mention my mother-in-law has been a teacher in Peel region of Ontario for 45 years.

    But yeah what do I know. People who don't have kids, who don't live in Canada and haven't had to go through anything like this feel free to keep telling me what the rules are and how their to be applied.
  7. Alucard619 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2010 8:22pm


     Style: The Way of Hand and Foot

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Will do.
  8. ronaldk is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/07/2010 12:37am


     Style: BJJ / freestyle wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i'm a teacher (started teaching english in highschool this year) and well, i don't really see any situation where i could justify restraining a kid like that. much less over the contents of a cellphone. you see, it's not exactly a case of wrong or right, i would say. more of jurisdiction, or maybe even job description.

    there has been more than one occasion where deep down, i believe the right thing to do is to smack a kid for being disrespectful. why? because he is being disrespectful to me, another teacher, a classmate, or whomever the victim is just because they know it wouldn't escalate to a physical level. their sense of self-preservation is skewed because they know a teacher won't clock them in the face. but even tho i think that personally, professionally, it's not behavior i can act upon.

    i had a kid take a swing at me once. as a "joke". it was one of these problem kids, general smartass, gets into fights at recess, does bad in most classes, etc. i was walking out of the room to get something, he rushed at me, behind my back, motioning as if to hit me. the impression i got was he was going to stop a few inches short, and was doing it to look "badass". (they know i train, i took about 30 kids with me on a fieldtrip to my MMA gym, and had them do a BJJ class). to his surprise, i turned around to get something, just as he was coming in with his fist. his "OH ****" face was priceless. he was far from hitting me, but as soon as i see him rushing in with a clenched fist, i automatically reacted by throwing up my guard, perfectly positioned to whack him with a right cross.

    i told him "DON'T EVER TRY SOMETHING LIKE THAT AGAIN! not out of respect, but for your own safety". kid's been afraid of me since. but i believe it would have been educational for that kid to get bitchslapped so hard over that, so he'd never forget it. if i were his father, i would have too. but that's the point, as a teacher, i'm there to teach him english, and in most cases, babysit him.

    unless the kid is being physical with me or another student, i don't feel i have the right to get physical with him. and even if i believe it is the right thing to do, i won't be surprised if i get canned for it afterwards. in a world where parents are no longer allowed to get physical with their children, having teachers do it (which in my experiences, can in many cases be lunatics with god complexes who lose their cool and invest way too much emotion in their jobs, or even worse, manifest issues coming from their family-life or personal demons onto their work environment) is a baaad idea.

    just my 0.02

    edit: not to mention, while i'm not a dad, if i hear some school faculty member touched my kid without something like my kid trying to punch them first, i think i'd try everything in my power to sue the place into oblivion.
    Last edited by ronaldk; 6/07/2010 12:44am at .
  9. Alucard619 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/07/2010 10:00am


     Style: The Way of Hand and Foot

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If my kid pushed past his principal after refusing to comply with rules I'd slap the **** out of him. If I were in the same situation my mom would have done the same.

    One of your kids tried hitting you to be funny? Dude I would have so emasculated his punk ass in front of all his little friends it would have been sad. Should have grabbed his arm and placed him in a rear naked choke or hell even a standing kimura then "accidentally" smash him into a locker. That'd teach the little ****.

    *folds arms in satisfaction*
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